1985 (rookie) Jordan vs 2008 (MVP) Kobe

[ArbitraryWater]

Didn't see a tread on this, tough one though



*FG% is 52%

[Legends66NBA7]

There's a thread on the first page: http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=380596

[Ne 1]

Technically, this is correct, but let's put things into perspective as use some context here. You had guys like Purvis Short putting up 26 ppg on near 50% from the field during that time... so should we think prime Kobe back then would have any problem shooting a higher FG% than his usual 45-47% average in that era and scoring more? Especially with him getting a million semi-transition looks all game long, with horrible help defense (which didn't improve until the bad boy Pistons showed how), amongst several other factors.) If you watch games from back then, like no one ever going 10 feet within guys shooting just because they wanted to get the ball ASAP to start a fast break.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Don't get me wrong, I would probably take rookie Jordan over most versions of Kobe...but where are the playoff stats? Kobe also led his team to the finals.

[ArbitraryWater]

Don't get me wrong, I would probably take rookie Jordan over most versions of Kobe...but where are the playoff stats? Kobe also led his team to the finals.

over how many?

[Ne 1]

*FG% is 52%

Yes, and it should be noted that in the 1980s and early 1990s, everyone shot a higher FG%


Since Chris Mullin in the early 90s, LeBron James was the first perimeter player to average 25+ ppg on 50+%

Reggie Miller who was a jump shoter 98% of the time had 4 seasons shooting 50 FG%.

Drazen Petrovic had 2 seasons.

Jeff Hornacek had 5 seasons.

Even Ricky Pierce had 6 seasons shooting over 50 FG% from the field in the 80's/Early 90s.

Those type of seasons in the mid 80s to early 90s happened all the time. List of other guys who accomplished that feat: Kiki Vandeweghe, Dantley, Mark Aguirre, Dale Ellis, Clyde Drexler, Chris Mullin, Alex English, Bernard King, Jordan, Bird, Gervin, Worthy, Stockton, Johnson, Dr. J, Thompson, Kelly Tripucka and a couple of others came close and I'm sure I am forgetting some names too (stopped happening around mid-late 90s when help defense improved, overall commitment to defense by teams was greater and also perimeter talent was crap) Now if you compare that to the last 15years, it has been a rarity for a high scoring perimeter player to shoot 50+%. This isn't meant to belittle Jordan or any of the other players I named at all, but it was a different era and the fact of that matter is that the 80s/early 90s was a different game.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

over how many?

A vast majority of them. Don't think I would take Mike's rookie verz over Kobe's peak ie. 2006-2008, but every other season from the 19 he's played is definitely arguable.

Maybe that's just me though.

[SouBeachTalents]

Point taken, but you could do the same thing with Wilt's rookie year vs Kareem, Shaq, or Hakeem's MVP seasons as well

[ArbitraryWater]

Yes, and it should be noted that in the 1980s and early 1990s, everyone shot a higher FG%


Since Chris Mullin in the early 90s, LeBron James was the first perimeter player to average 25+ ppg on 50+%

Reggie Miller who was a jump shoter 98% of the time had 4 seasons shooting 50 FG%.

Drazen Petrovic had 2 seasons.

Jeff Hornacek had 5 seasons.

Even Ricky Pierce had 6 seasons shooting over 50 FG% from the field in the 80's/Early 90s.

Those type of seasons in the mid 80s to early 90s happened all the time. List of other guys who accomplished that feat: Kiki Vandeweghe, Dantley, Mark Aguirre, Dale Ellis, Clyde Drexler, Chris Mullin, Alex English, Bernard King, Jordan, Bird, Gervin, Worthy, Stockton, Johnson, Dr. J, Thompson, Kelly Tripucka and a couple of others came close and I'm sure I am forgetting some names too (stopped happening around mid-late 90s when help defense improved, overall commitment to defense by teams was greater and also perimeter talent was crap) Now if you compare that to the last 15years, it has been a rarity for a high scoring perimeter player to shoot 50+%. This isn't meant to belittle Jordan or any of the other players I named at all, but it was a different era and the fact of that matter is that the 80s/early 90s was a different game.

what do you think were the main reasons for the weaker defenses in the 80's, or 2005-2006 period when teams adjusted to new rules (I basically just gave mine)?

A vast majority of them. Don't think I would take Mike's rookie verz over Kobe's peak ie. 2006-2008, but every other season from the 19 he's played is definitely arguable.

Maybe that's just me though.

no doubt, I'd add 2003 and 2009 Kobe as better, but besides that? 2001 should be on there too, no?

Point taken, but you could do the same thing with Wilt's rookie year vs Kareem, Shaq, or Hakeem's MVP seasons as well

pace/possessions/FGA? 60's stats are misleading if you'd do that.

Here whats surprising is MJ actually took less shots than Kobe

[DMAVS41]

08 Kobe was better. Clearly...

[HOoopCityJones]

You saw this thread made and made it again?

[3ball]

what do you think were the main reasons for the weaker defenses in the 80's,

Show me where players in previous eras got to play secluded 1-on-1 on the strongside, with all 4 help defenders on the far weakside and furthest away to help.

The setup shown above is literally the weakest defense possible against a strongside player, and it's routine in today's game due to weakside spacing.

Otoh, it's amazing how previous eras didn't have weakside spacing, and therefore faced more defenders on the strongside:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/sho...7&postcount=21

Night and day.
.

[97 bulls]

Yes, and it should be noted that in the 1980s and early 1990s, everyone shot a higher FG%


Since Chris Mullin in the early 90s, LeBron James was the first perimeter player to average 25+ ppg on 50+%

Reggie Miller who was a jump shoter 98% of the time had 4 seasons shooting 50 FG%.

Drazen Petrovic had 2 seasons.

Jeff Hornacek had 5 seasons.

Even Ricky Pierce had 6 seasons shooting over 50 FG% from the field in the 80's/Early 90s.

Those type of seasons in the mid 80s to early 90s happened all the time. List of other guys who accomplished that feat: Kiki Vandeweghe, Dantley, Mark Aguirre, Dale Ellis, Clyde Drexler, Chris Mullin, Alex English, Bernard King, Jordan, Bird, Gervin, Worthy, Stockton, Johnson, Dr. J, Thompson, Kelly Tripucka and a couple of others came close and I'm sure I am forgetting some names too (stopped happening around mid-late 90s when help defense improved, overall commitment to defense by teams was greater and also perimeter talent was crap) Now if you compare that to the last 15years, it has been a rarity for a high scoring perimeter player to shoot 50+%. This isn't meant to belittle Jordan or any of the other players I named at all, but it was a different era and the fact of that matter is that the 80s/early 90s was a different game.

Ive been screaming thus since I joined this forum. You cant compare 80s stats to todays. Or even the mid to late 90s for that matter. The teams focus was a lot different.

[jstern]

Players didn't take that many 3s in the 80s, so when comparing FG percentage, 2pt fg and 3pt fg should be compared separately. Jordan shot .526 from 2 points. Which is essentially his FG percentage. So it wouldn't be fair to compare that to Kobe who shot 415 3s that season. He shot .490 from 2pt.

[DonDadda59]

Players didn't take that many 3s in the 80s, so when comparing FG percentage, 2pt fg and 3pt fg should be compared separately. Jordan shot .526 from 2 points. Which is essentially his FG percentage. So it wouldn't be fair to compare that to Kobe who shot 415 3s that season. He shot .490 from 2pt.

So basically all you've proven is no matter how you look at it, rookie Jordan>Prime Bean