Kobe Bryant 2005-06 vs Lebron James 2011-12

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Well, if you look at Kobe in 2000 for example, his on the ball defense was phenomenal, and he usually guard point guards back then as well. That was when he was the most motivated defensively asking guys like MJ, Payton and Eddie Jones for defensive tips in the offseason.

And can you think of a better perimeter defender than Kobe in '00? Maybe Pippen still was for his help defense, or maybe Eddie Jones.

But it's not easy to come up with a name, and that was what Kobe was capable of as far as man to man defense, he just wasn't as consistent when he started scoring more, particularly post-3peat.

Well I was mostly talking about 12 Lebron vs 06 Kobe on defense.
I don't really disagree with any of that though. His defense was fantastic in 00, though I still think Lebron this year in terms of one on one D is better, especially when he really gives a full effort. I don't think Kobe could ever shut anyone down like Lebron did Rose last year, and that changed the outcome of that series. Though I don't feel like he's consistent with his defense game to game, or even possession to possession.
I guess there really isn't a fair comparison with Lebron's matchups, but I still feel like Kobe didn't have that impact.

[magnax1]

Wade would rank second for me in '06 due to his ECF and especially finals, and '06 was the year he started to show a pretty good mid-range game, especially in the playoffs, but Kobe was much more skilled and just better. Wade also benefited from Shaq's presence as Wade's FG% dropped from 51.6% in 54 games with Shaq to 44.7% in 21 games without him and went just 10-11 with Wade and without Shaq despite a great center filling in with Alonzo Mourning averaged 12/9 with 4 bpg as a starter.

Off topic, but this got me thinking. Has Wade's jumpshot not declined quite a bit these past couple years? Maybe my memory is failing me on this subject, but I certainly don't remember it being as bad as it is now.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Well I was mostly talking about 12 Lebron vs 06 Kobe on defense.
I don't really disagree with any of that though. His defense was fantastic in 00, though I still think Lebron this year in terms of one on one D is better, especially when he really gives a full effort. I don't think Kobe could ever shut anyone down like Lebron did Rose last year, and that changed the outcome of that series. Though I don't feel like he's consistent with his defense game to game, or even possession to possession.
I guess there really isn't a fair comparison with Lebron's matchups, but I still feel like Kobe didn't have that impact.

Well, I guess 2000 was off topic to some degree, though I do think he had that same ability when he gave the effort through '09 or so. Kobe's performance in that NBC Sunday game vs Iverson was unforgettable, though in 2000. That was when he started getting a lot of his reputation as an elite defender. I was watching that game back then, and it remains one of my favorite Kobe games. Iverson was playing very well in the first half, iirc, and they switched Kobe onto him the 2nd half and Kobe held AI scoreless.

I guess I just wanted to give 2000 Kobe some credit for his defense. He wasn't in his prime yet, or a top 5 player, but at 21 years old, he became just the top shooting guard in the league, imo and arguably one of the game's 10 best players and the best perimeter defender.

Off topic, but this got me thinking. Has Wade's jumpshot not declined quite a bit these past couple years? Maybe my memory is failing me on this subject, but I certainly don't remember it being as bad as it is now.

You're 100% correct. Though Wade has only really been able to shoot in 2 1/2 seasons of his career, which is shocking for a perimeter player of his caliber.

As I said, he started making them with regularity in the 2006 season, but particularly the playoffs when his improved jumper started getting talked about. And he still had it before his injury in '07(which probably would've been his best season outside of '09 had he not been injured).

His entire game was obviously off in '08, and that included his jumper, but his mid-range game peaked in '09 and was very good, while he also became a capable 3 point shooter, he shot them decently enough to be a threat who could hit 4-5 in a game on a good night, and shot a great 3P% after the all-star break.

But strangely, he's fallen off greatly as a shooter since. '09 was quite easily Dwyane's best season, and he didn't even come close to following it up in '10. His mid-range jumper was flat out bad in '10, while he also showed up out of shape, started extremely slow and didn't give as consistent effort on defense as he did in '09, which also happened to be his peak defensive season.

In '11, he also didn't appear to have much of a jumper, and this year, his jumper has seemed flat out bad.

It's not even like one year, or an extended slump where he's not hitting jumpers, it's like he forgot how to shoot. For reference, here are Wade's mid-range shooting numbers from '06-present. I only included his pre-injury '07 statistics.

2006 (75 games)
10-15 ft: Made 0.9 per game, shot 36.6%
16-23 ft: Made 2.1, shot 39.6%

2007 pre-injury (45 games)
10-15 ft: Made 0.7, shot 40%
16-23 ft: Made 2.6, shot 38.9%

2008 (51 games)
10-15 ft: Made 1 per game, shot 40.6%
16-23 ft: Made 2.4 per game, shot 36.8%

2009 (79 games)
10-15 ft: Made 0.9 per game, shot 44.5%
16-23 ft: Made 3.2 per game, shot 41.6%

2010 (77 games)
10-15 ft: Made 0.9 per game, shot 35.3%
16-23 ft: Made 1.7 per game, shot 35.6%"

2011 (76 games)
10-15 ft: Made 0.7 per game, shot 35.9%
16-23 ft: Made 1.3 per game, shot 38.7%

2012 (49 games)
10-15 ft: Made 1 per game, shot 41.5%
16-23 ft: Made 1.3 per game, shot 35.8%

It's strange. But as it's turned out, Wade's second best season behind '09 will remain '06, which was just his 3rd season. How often does that happen? And it's because he hasn't been able to shoot consistently throughout his career.

I'd have also never imagined watching Wade his first 6 seasons and thought he'd have questionable motivation as he's had every year since '09 at times, whether it was his conditioning in the '10 season, his effort defensively the first few months of '11, or his overall game this year, not sure if it's just injuries and decline, but his effort hasn't seemed the same to me.