Harden vs Wade at 23 years old...

[Money 23]

But you are right that Harden hasn't been much of a mid-range shooter.

Which is why he struggles in the playoffs against elite defensive opponents like Miami.

In the playoffs in the NBA, you aren't going to get huge driving lanes to finish at the hoop and unlike the regular season when teams coast defensively, in the playoffs they run you off the three point line. Especially a great defensive team like Miami.

The mid-range game is a lost art in basketball among perimeter players. That in between game is where you do DAMAGE to a team who actually plays defense. You're not going to get easy drives or wide open threes.

It's no coincidence the most successful perimeter players could score from mid range. Jordan won 6 rings dominating that phase of the game. Keeping him the best player in the game well into his mid 30's. Kobe has a sick mid-range game which has lead to 2 rings as alpha, by 2006 with the inclusion of a nice mid-range jumper Wade had it, and won a ring and FMVP in the process.

LeBron didn't have it, and then had it in the 2012 season, his most successful playoff run (see the mid-range barrage v.s. Boston in game 6) ... Harden needs to add this to his game to seriously be effective.

[Micku]

Wade didn't attempt many mid-range jumpers so I don't read too much into those stats. I watched Wade a lot that year since it was Shaq's first in Miami, and regardless of stats, a jumper simply wasn't a big part of his game. He only attempted 4 shots per game from 16-23 feet, and just 2.3 from 10-15.

I started noticing Wade show more of a jumper in '06(especially during the playoffs) and not surprisingly, his attempts increased, even during the regular season to 5.4 from 16-23 and 6.4 attempts from there in the playoffs.

But you are right that Harden hasn't been much of a mid-range shooter.

Indeed. Harden attempts less jumpshots at the mid-range than Wade. He is only attempting about 3 shots from 16-23 and less than one attempt at the 10-15 spot. And he is pretty bad at it. Wade could take you off the dribble or do a better catch and shot at the time, but his game was more slashing. But his midrange game back then was better than Harden, and it rounds up as a jumpshooter overall when the defense is active.

So, I would think Wade had the more ability to change it up since Harden never really was a good mid-range shooter. But he is the better FT shooter, which is why he scores more despite Wade having a better FG%.

[Micku]

I dont know what to tell you, in the second paragraph of my response I gave you the reason why I believe harden shot a higher percentage. Wade was probably taking more difficult shots.

Needless to say it is pointless to argue that harden is a better finisher than dwade since dwade is one of the goat perimeter finishers and harden is not.

I was responding to the first paragraph because it wasn't true when Wade was 23.

But I think you are half right with the second paragraph. Wade slash more often, but I don't really agree that it's the sole reason why Wade shot a less percentage. He shot a difficult shots when he drive at the rim, but Harden is better because of his unstoppable euro floppy step to the basket. We can agree to disagree on that one.

However, Wade did get better over time at finishing. The very next year, he improved greatly at finishing. He shot 65.6% at the rim. Right now he is great, but that's partly because LBJ takes pressure off of him and get him good looks.

All I'm saying is that Harden this year is better at finishing than 23 year Wade. And it'll probably stay that way because I don't see Harden's percentage going down to less than 58.9%

[red1]

I was responding to the first paragraph because it wasn't true. When Wade was 23.

But I think you are half right with the second paragraph. Wade slash more often, but I don't really agree that it's the sole reason why Wade shot a less percentage. He shot a difficult shots when he drive at the rim, but Harden is better because of his unstoppable euro floppy step to the basket. We can agree to disagree on that one.

However, Wade did get better over time at finishing. The very next year, he improved greatly at finishing. He shot 65.6% at the rim. Right now he is great, but that's partly because LBJ takes pressure off of him and get him good looks.

All I'm saying is that Harden this year is better at finishing than 23 year Wade. And it'll probably stay that way because I don't see Harden's percentage going down to less than 58.9%

Im not disagreeing with the stats I am just saying that this is a prime example of stats not telling the whole story. Harden's % at the rim is unexpected and is very impressive but I still have a hard time thinking that current harden is a better finisher than 2nd year wade. Either way this was interesting to see.

[Micku]

Im not disagreeing with the stats I am just saying that this is a prime example of stats not telling the whole story. Harden's % at the rim is unexpected and is very impressive but I still have a hard time thinking that current harden is a better finisher than 2nd year wade. Either way this was interesting to see

I was shocked too when I looked it up. Like I said, Wade was the better slasher, but the stats show Harden's the better finisher. And Wade had the better jumpshot due to his mid-range game. While Harden can shoot the 3, he really sucks at midrange.

It's the complete opposite of what I expected.

[red1]

I was shocked too when I looked it up. Like I said, Wade was the better slasher, but the stats show Harden's the better finisher. And Wade had the better jumpshot due to his mid-range game. While Harden can shoot the 3, he really sucks at midrange.

It's the complete opposite of what I expected.

Lets just say that thus far this year harden has been a more efficient finisher than 2nd year wade. We'll get back to this at the end of the year

[Micku]

Lets just say that thus far this year harden has been a more efficient finisher than 2nd year wade. We'll get back to this at the end of the year

Sure. That's the word for it for now. We'll see where he'll be at the end of the season in terms of finishing and jumpshots.

[Ikill]

I was responding to the first paragraph because it wasn't true when Wade was 23.

But I think you are half right with the second paragraph. Wade slash more often, but I don't really agree that it's the sole reason why Wade shot a less percentage. He shot a difficult shots when he drive at the rim, but Harden is better because of his unstoppable euro floppy step to the basket. We can agree to disagree on that one.

However, Wade did get better over time at finishing. The very next year, he improved greatly at finishing. He shot 65.6% at the rim. Right now he is great, but that's partly because LBJ takes pressure off of him and get him good looks.

All I'm saying is that Harden this year is better at finishing than 23 year Wade. And it'll probably stay that way because I don't see Harden's percentage going down to less than 58.9%

Other than the fact Wade attacked you should also look at who relies more on fastbreak points. The Rockets are playing at a much faster pace than the 05 Heat so Harden might be getting more easy transition buckets. Wade also had Shaq on his team who gave him more room on the outside for jumpshots but probably made finishing a bit more difficult due to his inside presence. I think the main reason Harden is finishing better is because he gets cleaner looks by playing more under control. Wade would just crash right into the lane

[Ikill]

heres 23 year old Wade

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dPpjplN4XQ

[FKAri]

Wade was a better slasher. His quickness, skill and most importantly agility made it impossible to keep him out of the paint. He put more pressure on defenses this way. As for overall player? Probably Wade for that reason. Give him some shooters and it's a deadly offense. Harden has a more well rounded game at the moment then Wade did tho.

[SCdac]

In terms of age and style of volume scoring, Harden reminds me of prime Latrell Sprewell in his Golden State days.

Of course he reminds me of Ginobili too, his Euro step, pacing, and style, but as far as being a dangerous scorer in his prime and the way the Rockets play he reminds me of Latrell. Wade was less reliant on his three but seems like a greater talent of the three. Could break down the best of defenses.

Both Harden and Sprewell played for Fast-paced teams (90's Warriors ran em out as we all know). Both fired a ton of three's, were fast in the open court, great ball handling/footwork that allowed them get into the paint with ease, and could dunk ferociously. In Sprewell's 5th season he was taking as many three's as current Harden and had his best scoring season, but his career never turned out to be what it could have been. None the less, the comparison is more similar imo.

5th season Latrell - 42 mpg, 24 ppg, 6 apg, 5 rpg, 2 spg, 1.8 - 5.2 threes (35%), 8.1 - 18.1 field goal (45%), 6.2 - 7.3 free throw (84%),

4th season Harden - 39 mpg, 26 ppg, 5 apg, 4 rpg, 2 spg, 2.0 - 5.8 threes (34%), 7.9 - 17.8 field goal (44%), 8.4 - 9.8 free throw (85%)

[MJ(Mean John)]

Everyone in this thread is talking about a Dwayne wade that doesn't exist anymore.

Wade was only that player from 03-09.
6 years.

He certainly is not the player he was and a shell of his former self which is pathetic for a guy who's supposed to be in his "prime"
He was worlds better than he is now.


Oh how the mighty have fallen without steroids. Should have never teamed with lebronze. Should have never became Robin; his career, the player he is/was will be changed forever.

[TheAesirsFinest]

Before I checked the stats, I would think that too. It's amazing how the stats show the complete opposite. Harden actually don't have a good midrange jumper, but could shoot the 3. Meanwhile Wade had the better mid range jumper, especially at the 16-3pt where he did shot above 40% while Harden hasn't been above 40% for about two seasons. And he is better at the 10-15ft, but couldn't shoot the 3.

Harden is the better finisher than Wade was that year so far, but he is also the better FT shooter. That's the reason why he gets his points despite having a less FG%.

I'll give you some context for the mid-range shooting. The Rockets' offense heavily favors lay-ups or 3s and condemns long 2s even if they're better looks. From the games I've seen, a significant portion of Harden's mid-range attempts have been bail-out jumpers from a failed offensive set.

[Day La Ghetto]

I think 09-11 Wade used euro just as much as ginobli if not more. Idk about younger in his career but wade has used it a lot during those seasons,why are people saying harden does it so much more?

[red1]

Everyone in this thread is talking about a Dwayne wade that doesn't exist anymore.

Wade was only that player from 03-09.
6 years.

He certainly is not the player he was and a shell of his former self which is pathetic for a guy who's supposed to be in his "prime"
He was worlds better than he is now.


Oh how the mighty have fallen without steroids. Should have never teamed with lebronze. Should have never became Robin; his career, the player he is/was will be changed forever.