A Rookie 1984 Michael Jordan or a Current Kobe Bryant?

[eliteballer]

Kobe's numbers went up only once they changed the defensive rules that benefitted all perimeter players. Nice try though. In 2005 and from '00-'04 in the games Shaq was out, his numbers were notably worse than when Shaq was in.

As if the notion that 80's defense at ANY stage was better than 00's defense at ANY stage. As for your second point. NOPE. You're lying. FLAT OUT. I'm calling you OUT to POST THE NUMBERS FROM EVERY GAME KOBE PLAYED WITHOUT SHAQ FROM 00-04 AND AVERAGE THEM, THEN COMPARE. Go ahead, do IT. I've seen them.

[eliteballer]

I'LL PROVE YOUR WRONG RIGHT NOW FOR THE 04 SEASON.

http://www.82games.com/kobeshaq.htm

Kobe Bryant stat splits for the 2003-04 Regular Season
Situation FGA FG% FTM Ast TO OReb Reb Stl Pts Pts100
with Shaq 17.2 45.5% 6.3 5.7 2.9 1.6 5.7 1.7 23.0 100.0
without Shaq 24.0 41.5% 10.3 4.6 2.7 2.0 6.3 2.2 31.6 100.4
Stats shown on a per 40 minutes of playing time basis,
"PTS100" is points per 100 possessions, ignoring offensive rebounds

Without Shaquille, Kobe's field goal attempts increase by a whopping 40%, albeit at a cost in field goal percentage (and for you eFG lovers that adjust for three-point shots made, Kobe's eFG is .487 with Shaq, .443 without him).

Remarkably though, Kobe's efficiency doesn't drop despite the lower FG% number, since he gets to the free throw line a whole lot more, but his scoring average zooms up to 31.6 points per 40 minutes, so yes he may well lead the league in scoring once the Diesel is no longer obstructing his way to the paint.


In other details, Bryant's assists drop slightly without Shaq, but his rebounds and steals move up a little. Most importantly, despite handling the ball more often his turnovers decrease, presumably because he's making less passes into the paint which carry the higher risk/reward equation.

Let's see....EIGHT MORE POINTS PER GAME, MORE REBOUNDS, STEALS, LESS TURNOVERS.

[InspiredLebowski]

Not even mentioning MJ's much superior D, the fact that Jordan shot a career 49%, while Kobe's career high for a SEASON is a rounded up 47% sums it up for me.

[eliteballer]

Not even mentioning MJ's much superior D, the fact that Jordan shot a career 49%, while Kobe's career high for a SEASON is a rounded up 47% sums it up for me.

KOBE IS ALL-NBA DEFENSE, NOT ROOKIE MJ.

[ShowTime LA]

.........

[InspiredLebowski]

KOBE IS ALL-NBA DEFENSE, NOT ROOKIE MJ.

WHAT DID YOU SAY I COULDN'T MAKE IT OUT

Besides, Mike with the gold chain is the best NBA photo of all time

[KenneBell]

Not even mentioning MJ's much superior D, the fact that Jordan shot a career 49%, while Kobe's career high for a SEASON is a rounded up 47% sums it up for me.

We've been over this already. Kobe is more of a perimeter jumpshooter. He takes way more threes than Jordan and pretty much anyone in his era. The game has changed. His FG% as well pretty much everyone else's is lower than players from Jordan's era because of the recent tendencies to take 3's. It's also explains why his TS% is close to MJ's.

18 feet in, Jordan was automatic. That's where he and most guards in his day operated. Not today.

[InspiredLebowski]

We've been over this already. Kobe is more of a perimeter jumpshooter. He takes way more threes than Jordan and pretty anyone in his era. The game has changed. His FG% as well pretty much everyone else's is lower than players from Jordan's era because of the recent tendencies to take 3's.

First of all, my mistake in making this an overall vs. overall debate, it's digressing from the OP.

Anyway, so what? He should be given the benefit of the doubt, even though there's no hand-check these days, because he takes lower % shots? I'll readily admit Kobe has more range right now than MJ ever had in his career, but so what? Is Reggie Miller or Ray Allen better than a guy like Dwyane Wade because they could drain it from 30 feet?

[KenneBell]

Anyway, so what? He should be given the benefit of the doubt, even though there's no hand-check these days, because he takes lower % shots? I'll readily admit Kobe has more range right now than MJ ever had in his career, but so what? Is Reggie Miller or Ray Allen better than a guy like Dwyane Wade because they could drain it from 30 feet?

No I'm just saying...

For the topic, I'd go with Kobe no doubt. I'd like to see 29yo Kobe matchup vs a 29yo Jordan. It'd be interesting to see for sure.

[InspiredLebowski]

No I'm just saying...

For the topic, I'd go with Kobe no doubt. I'd like to see 29yo Kobe matchup vs a 29yo Jordan. It'd be interesting to see for sure.

MJ 11 Kobe 5

[juju151111]

Jordan at 22(Most of rookie year)

28.2 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 5.9 apg, 2.4 stl, 51.5 FG, 17.3 3FG, 84.5 FT

Kobe at 22

28.5 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 5.0 apg, 1.7 stl, 46.4 FG, 30.5 3FG, 85.3 FT, All-NBA Defensive Second Team(First-Team year before)

Not to mention Jordan was in a faster paced, less defensive easier to score league.

I don't understand.I could of sworn Mj was droping 20 ppg at age 40 on ur so called better defensive league?Also u didn't put the FG%.Just because u are on the all team defense doesn't mean anything.Mj averged more stls and blks then kobe that year.He was a rookie and they didn't really know him has a defensive plyer yet, even tho he played defense.Look at 86-87.He was just has good has 88, but no reconition.Look at tmac in his orlano days.He played great one on one defense and got stls and blks no freaking mention on all defensive team.media doesn't now how to pick.Wat was the difference with 87 Mj and 88 Mj that gave him the DPOTY???Noting he was =n't known has a D player doesn't mean he wasn't.

[TmacsRockets]

Meh, I bet Kobe would still get similar numbers or higher when by himself. It might have been a bit harder but Kobe could adapt. But we'll never know which is why threads like this are worthless...

Kobe still shoots a worse fg% than his team average and has done so the last 5 years. Jordan always shot better than his team average.

[eliteballer]

I don't understand.I could of sworn Mj was droping 20 ppg at age 40 on ur so called better defensive league?Also u didn't put the FG%.Just because u are on the all team defense doesn't mean anything.Mj averged more stls and blks then kobe that year.He was a rookie and they didn't really know him has a defensive plyer yet, even tho he played defense.Look at 86-87.He was just has good has 88, but no reconition.Look at tmac in his orlano days.He played great one on one defense and got stls and blks no freaking mention on all defensive team.media doesn't now how to pick.Wat was the difference with 87 Mj and 88 Mj that gave him the DPOTY???Noting he was =n't known has a D player doesn't mean he wasn't.

Coaches pick defensive teams ISHiot. Steals and blocks numbers dont= good defender. Ask LeBron yrs 1-3 or Bruce Bowen.

[juju151111]

Coaches pick defensive teams ISHiot. Steals and blocks numbers dont= good defender. Ask LeBron yrs 1-3 or Bruce Bowen.

ok watever coaches.hmmm thats the reason i said great one on one defender.stls and blks are a plus with the defense.off the top of my head i think there are only 4 sg/sf who put up 100plus stls and 100plus blks and mj did it twice.

[VCMVP1551]

Oh yeah...and Kobe was operating in the triangle, not freelancing like MJ.

Kobe didn't play team basketball until the second half of 2000-2001(it's no coincidence the Lakers didn't play championship level basketball until the second half). For a big chunk of the 2000-2001 season Kobe was jacking up shots trying to be the first option which is probably why they went 11-3 when Kobe was out of the lineup.

So don't act like Kobe wasn't playing freely and he was playing perfect team basketball that entire season. That's why Shaq made that quote about how if the big dog wasn't him the house wouldn't get guarded.

Anyway as for the OP current Kobe is clearly better than rookie Jordan but I think Jordan from his 3rd season until 1998 was much better than Kobe ever was.