If Tyson Chandler was a scorer and he had this type of obvious impact: "Top 5 player"

[Clifton]

What do you mean offensive player? Someone who can run the offense? Are you taking into account point guards or something? If you mean scorers, then flat out list 5 better scorers in the NBA.

I mean total offensive impact.

Chris Paul is in the top 5, and he doesn't score too much. Durant is in the top 5, and he regularly leads the league in scoring. It's scoring, passing, playmaking, and all that; but really it's the intangible quality of having control over a game on the offensive end. Jason Kidd at 40 is a good example of that quality. He could go 5 games without hitting a shot and still impact the game more than many guys who averaged double digits.

Even as a 20+ppg scorer, Dwight Howard ranked very low as an offensive impact player IMO. (As far as top players go he might have been dead last.) But even when Dwight's bpg numbers are not especially impressive, he still has a very high defensive impact. Shaq had some of the greatest defensive impact of all-time simply by being (and playing) bigger than everyone and being mobile enough to get in your face when you approached the basket - I wouldn't call him a "good defensive player" though like I would Duncan.

Ron Artest was once a legit offensive threat and absolutely a two way player. Chandler isn't on that level.

Yeah, and an absolute beast and game-changer on defense.

Artest is a good example of a guy who was never much of an impact player on offense, even when he was getting 20ppg. (Still a good contributor but hardly on any of the upper tiers.) But yes Artest could score much better than most guys whose primary impact is on D. A 2-way player to be sure, just not evenly.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

I sort of agree with the OP. If Melo went down and the Knicks played like shit (as they are now) then we would be hearing about how impactful Melo is etc.. Chandler is underrated.

[Clifton]

I sort of agree with the OP. If Melo went down and the Knicks played like shit (as they are now) then we would be hearing about how impactful Melo is etc.. Chandler is underrated.

Well, it's funny you mention this, because, IIRC, when Melo goes down, the Knicks play okay...

And are people not saying the Knicks miss Chandler?

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Well, it's funny you mention this, because, IIRC, when Melo goes down, the Knicks play okay...

And are people not saying the Knicks miss Chandler?

They are, but probably not as much as they should.

[DMAVS41]

Tyson Chandler was a double double DPOY caliber player when he was on the Mavericks. In the 11 playoffs he was actually better than he was on the knicks the following year when he won the award.


Brandon Jennings is a low IQ below average guard. Tyson does the most impactful things a big man can possibly do.. all at an extremely high level. Rebounding, rim protection, and finishing/screen setting. Thats all positive impact. Jennings literally has negative impact as a guard.


A good small man comparison for Tyson would be someone like Ron Artest... not a great scorer, but can do all the fundamental things necessary to win and has a game predicated on great defense and toughness. I'm talking about ron artest here.. not metta world peace.

Except he wasn't a double double player on the Mavs. And even worse, he was an 8/9/0 player in the playoffs in 32 minutes per game.

Prime Ron Artest was infinitely more valuable to a team than Chandler was on the 11 Mavs.

Isn't it a little odd that you rail on Dirk for his rebounding throughout his career...yet now Chandler is an elite rebounder at his position? May want to check that "extremely high level" rebounding...doesn't really make sense.

Chandler can only play roughly 30 to 32 minutes a game without getting into foul trouble as well.

His over-rating has become absurd...

Put it his way. If Chandler is your clear cut 2nd best player...you likely have little to no shot to win the title. I don't know what that makes his impact, but sure as hell isn't top 5 caliber in the league.

[tpols]

Except he wasn't a double double player on the Mavs. And even worse, he was an 8/9/0 player in the playoffs in 32 minutes per game.

Prime Ron Artest was infinitely more valuable to a team than Chandler was on the 11 Mavs.

Isn't it a little odd that you rail on Dirk for his rebounding throughout his career...yet now Chandler is an elite rebounder at his position? May want to check that "extremely high level" rebounding...doesn't really make sense.

Chandler can only play roughly 30 to 32 minutes a game without getting into foul trouble as well.

His over-rating has become absurd...

Put it his way. If Chandler is your clear cut 2nd best player...you likely have little to no shot to win the title. I don't know what that makes his impact, but sure as hell isn't top 5 caliber in the league.

You should slide an 'offensive' in there.. Tyson cant be your 2nd best offensive player. I agree.

He can sure as hell be your first best defensive player and make a frontcourt that would otherwise get trampled a formidable force. And I believe that has a lot of value. He's not a top 10 player or whatever.. but if you have a team with capable offensive talent but no defensive anchor and you add a piece like Tyson to it.. it just takes them to the next level. A level they would have never come close to reaching had the defense not been there.

[DMAVS41]

You should slide an 'offensive' in there.. Tyson cant be your 2nd best offensive player. I agree.

He can sure as hell be your first best defensive player and make a frontcourt that would otherwise get trampled a formidable force. And I believe that has a lot of value. He's not a top 10 player or whatever.. but if you have a team with capable offensive talent but no defensive anchor and you add a piece like Tyson to it.. it just takes them to the next level. A level they would have never come close to reaching had the defense not been there.

If you are talking about the Mavs...it's just false. The 06 Mavs didn't have a Chandler and went through the Spurs...a team that was better than anyone they beat in 11.

But who is arguing that Chandler isn't good?

And you are just sidestepping the statement. Forget offense vs defense. I'm talking overall. If Chandler is your clear cut 2nd best player...you simply aren't winning realistically. For example...if Terry had played like he normally did in the playoffs since 06...the Mavs don't win and Chandler would have then been the clear cut 2nd best player.

I mean...Jesus. This is a guy that has averaged like 7/8/1 in 32 minutes per game over his last 3 playoff appearances. And he's a really good defender, but nowhere near the Duncan or KG anchor that you speak of.

Like...he's really good. Maybe a top 40 or so player in the league. Something like that. And that just isn't worth his contract nor the praise he gets here.

[FreezingTsmoove]

I guarantee any member on ISH would have him as a Top 5 defensive player in the NBA right now.

[Kyle_korver]

THE MOST OVERRATED CENTER IN THE LEAGUE, PLAYERS LIKE DEANDRE JORDAN, DWIGHT HOWARD AND MCGEE GET BASHED FOR NO MOVES WHEN THEY ACTUALLY TRY TO DEVELOP THEM BUT ALL TYSON DOES IS YELL AND CATCH ALLEY OOPS.. KNICKS SUCK WITH HIM OR WITHOUT HIM