Michael Jordan 86-90 vs 95-98?

[SwooshReturns]

I think the reason people put so much stock on 95-98 MJ is because he won. But that's mostly because his team was better, not necessarily MJ.

if you gave MJ an equal caliber of teammates in 86-90, he might win a title or two during that span. No team could stop 'him'.

The difference between Kobe, Wade and Bron is that unlike them, MJ often didn't lose because he didn't perform, but because his team did. MJ would murder teams on his own, but he didn't have the help to beat them in a series. Give him better teammates, and he more than likely wins more than half of his series during that span.

Teams would concentrate on stopping MJ and only him. He was their 1st, 2nd and 3rd option and he still manages to put up huge numbers and at times make it look easy.

Mj's jumper may have been better in 95-98 (not as much as some make it seem), but he was killling people with his speed and overall athleticism.

That's a really solid point. The highlighted especially. Sometimes even I forget he had a terrible cast, pre Pippen becoming an actual all star caliber player in 1990.

Watch game highlights from this performance ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPVCJkW4uaU

Sick.

[andgar923]

LOL.....he played like trash against the pistons, knicks, sonics, and heat in plenty of series

Yet he still was the best player.

Can we say the same for Kobe?

Btw...

I see you have a bit of a reading comprehension.

MJ WON vs the teams you mentioned (except the Pistons early on). When he did lose, it wasn't because of his play or leadership.

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

LOL.....he played like trash against the pistons, knicks, sonics, and heat in plenty of series

Blasphemy. Everyone knows Michael Jordan never had bad games or even missed a shot. Every game he lost was an illusion glaring from his bald head.

[SwooshReturns]

LOL.....he played like trash against the pistons, knicks, sonics, and heat in plenty of series

The two with best case for "trash" is his Finals @ 33 years old v.s. Seattle (amazing wing defenders Payton, McMillian, etc.)

And @ 34 years old v.s. Miami Heat (best defensive team not named the Bulls)

Jordan didn't shoot well v.s. the Knicks in '93 (again the best defensive team not named the Bulls), but he did everything else EXTREMELY well.

He NEVER had a bad series against the Pistons.

[eliteballer]

96/97 Jordan still had a lot of athleticism(because he only played 8 seasons of pro ball before 96)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1mcuyoOWB8&t=6m17s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uu-9-c2sUoY
(for comparisons sake: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cm7I96kIcNU)

and he didnt have this kind of footwork pre 96:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3WLu...fvwrel&t=4m36s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0Jjl9_ZDY4&t=9m45s


Then you had in the improved strength, refined fadeaway/jumper etc.

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

None of those series did he play like trash. the two with best case for "trash" is his Finals @ 33 years old v.s. Seattle (amazing wing defenders Payton, McMillian, etc.)

And @ 34 years old v.s. Miami Heat (best defensive team not named the Bulls)

Jordan didn't shoot well v.s. the Knicks in '93 (again the best defensive team not named the Bulls), but he did everything else EXTREMELY well.

He NEVER had a bad series against the Pistons.

Why is there so much nitpicking? Why can't it be "He played poorly." Why is there a "but" that cancels out the negative? Lol.

I mean there are facts there but why add all the shit in parenthesis?

[SwooshReturns]

and he didnt have this kind of footwork pre 96

He had that kind of footwork in his peak from '90 - '93.

He didn't need to rely on the footwork and post game as much cause he beat people with his first step whenever he wanted.

[andgar923]

96/97 Jordan still had a lot of athleticism(because he only played 8 seasons of pro ball before 96)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1mcuyoOWB8&t=6m17s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uu-9-c2sUoY
(for comparisons sake: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cm7I96kIcNU)

and he didnt have this kind of footwork pre 96:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3WLu...fvwrel&t=4m36s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0Jjl9_ZDY4&t=9m45s


Then you had in the improved strength, refined fadeaway/jumper etc.

He was far more athletic before this season, and he had the footwork pre 96.

MJ was still amongst the strongest players pound for pound, and while he did have the fadeaway he didn't need it.

He used the fadeaway more later in his career to escape double and triple teams, when he was younger he just drove past them, no need for a fadeaway.

[SwooshReturns]

I mean there are facts there but why add all the shit in parenthesis?

Because the dumb accusation is he played poorly purely off FG% ... I watch the games, and there is other things besides scoring going on. Jordan didn't play like "trash" at all in the Knicks series.

And even when he was "trasy" (if you consider it that) he was still EASILY and ALWAYS the best and most productive player on the floor. Trashy to me is a great player playing well below expectations and not being the best player on the floor consistently.

Many consider Kobe's 2008 performance to be trashy. Do I? No. Was it disappointing? Very. He was still clearly the best player on the floor wearing a Lakers uniform in that series. Same goes for 2010. Disappointing? Sure, certainly not epic or legendary. Trashy? Hardly. LeBron's 2011? THAT is a trashy performance.

Now do you understand, dip shit?

Lettuce be reality, you and eliteballer are touchy because of Kobe's numerous "perceived" trashy playoff and Finals series, so you need to over emphasize and call certain MJ series trashy to overcompensate for your insecurities in regards to Kobe's resume.

You're not fooling anyone with a brain, kiddo.

[eliteballer]

Jordan has a couple series where he shot like CRAP against the Pistons, and one against the Bucks

also.....show me examples of pre 96 footwork that comes even CLOSE to those two moves

[SwooshReturns]

show me examples of pre 96 footwork that comes even CLOSE to those two moves

'93 ... that's just one example. I could find a lot more, but you still wouldn't conceit.

4:25

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdDb32m2EsM

[SwooshReturns]

He was far more athletic before this season, and he had the footwork pre 96.

MJ was still amongst the strongest players pound for pound, and while he did have the fadeaway he didn't need it.

He used the fadeaway more later in his career to escape double and triple teams, when he was younger he just drove past them, no need for a fadeaway.

Gets it.

[eliteballer]

'93 ... that's just one example. I could find a lot more, but you still wouldn't conceit.

4:25

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdDb32m2EsM

Not close....his body is stationary. Kobe was doing that same move at 22

[juju151111]

Jordan has a couple series where he shot like CRAP against the Pistons, and one against the Bucks

also.....show me examples of pre 96 footwork that comes even CLOSE to those two moves

Mj didn't have a bad series against the pistons. It was Pippen and Grant choking in the crucial deciding gms in 89 and 90. I will post Mj post moves from around 89-93 hold on. Also Mj shot bad against the knicks because of a risk injury, but he still showed up in crucial gms in that series offensively and defensivly. 93 series against the knicks was Mj playing his best defense ever. It was crazy.

[eliteballer]

Hell i just noticed he moved his pivot foot on that move too