2014 Edition of ISH's All-Time List: #15

[HomieWeMajor]

Dr J

[MrC1991]

Doctor J

[Kblaze8855]

Interesting you put Pettit in the same tier as Dr J and Elgin... you're right that he'll probably fall into the 20s.

Erving will win this round, Baylor has a shot of cracking the top 20 I think.

Seems every single person who watched him play a game puts Bob right there. 10 straight all NBA first teams, 2 MVPS, a title by dropping 50 in the elimination game in one of the 5 finals he took his team to, and hes putting up 31/19 right next to Russell and Wilt and nobody gives a shit.

Hes at least worth mentioning.

[ArbitraryWater]

Seems every single person who watched him play a game puts Bob right there. 10 straight all NBA first teams, 2 MVPS, a title by dropping 50 in the elimination game in one of the 5 finals he took his team to, and hes putting up 31/19 right next to Russell and Wilt and nobody gives a shit.

Hes at least worth mentioning.

No disrespect but I also heard he didn't play a lick of defense.. But I too have him top 20

[Kblaze8855]

As for Mikan...

He presents a real problem.

Either 5 rings and what would be 3 MVPs count or they dont.

Ranking him behind a lot of these guys is pretty much just saying "Yea but...it was 1951 and he wasnt a modern bigman" and once you dismiss the man totally due to nothing but his era....how do you then pull a later ranking out of your ass?

What...just plug him in at 26 with 5 rings? 34?

You all know as well as I do that he didnt play basketball better than Dirk, or Robert Parish, or Barkley or whoever.

But once you rank him behind them....how do you justify including him ever?

How do you put him behind Dirk but ahead of...Chris Webber?

The only reason to do it is going bottom line basketball playing...and throwing out what he did because of things out of his control.

You cant...pick who his accomplishments apply against.

If they count against Webber or Tim Hardaway..they count against charles barkley.

Which is why its damn near impossible to not have him top 10 or...just out.

Anything else is just kinda plugging him in once you feel the disrespect has gone a little too far.

But the reasons to not have him top 10 are just as valid for not having him top 100.

It just feels more disrespectful along the way so eventually we would stop.

But it wont be logically justifiable.

You almost need another category for players who didnt even reach the 60s.


Dick Mcguire had a better career than Russell Westbrook.

He wont rank ahead of him in this list.

It just is what it is.

[Sakkreth]

Julius Erving...

[Im so nba'd out]

Michael Carter Williams

[creepingdeath]

Dirk

[Kblaze8855]

No disrespect but I also heard he didn't play a lick of defense.. But I too have him top 20

Ive heard Dirk didnt play a lick of defense and people will be hearing it for the rest of time.

Make it true?

I dont really know if he could defend. Ive read Wilt say he was tough on defense. Bit of a bruiser. But ive heard other say he didnt care for it.

Ive also read Bill Simmons say he couldnt dunk even though ive seen him steal it and go coast to coast for the dunk in one of his last seasons.

Lot of misinformation out there on some of these guys.

[Kblaze8855]

I ran something like this years ago and noticed something I notice now....

Cant really get awya from it....but player fans will just vote for a guy over and over...you know why.....I didnt even want to count them at the time. I did...but it fels unfair.

If you could eliminate known fans of a guy from voting for them I think a better representation of what people actually think would result....but you would piss people off.

I remember Laker fans would pop up and vote once Magics name came up....then Kobes...then West....later Worthy.

Does it show you what people think or what 4-5 dedicated people who are gonna vote for their side no matter what can influence when so few votes get cast?

Not that perfection is the goal. You would never eliminate that element.

[ArbitraryWater]

Ive heard Dirk didnt play a lick of defense and people will be hearing it for the rest of time.

Make it true?

I dont really know if he could defend. Ive read Wilt say he was tough on defense. Bit of a bruiser. But ive heard other say he didnt care for it.

Ive also read Bill Simmons say he couldnt dunk even though ive seen him steal it and go coast to coast for the dunk in one of his last seasons.

Lot of misinformation out there on some of these guys.

[Kblaze8855]

Truth is truth.

You dont shake labels that ingrained into your reputation.

People still saying Wilt only cared about numbers for 40 years even though he started shooting 12 times a game and passing and rebounding and playing defense blocking shots that were not even recorded. A guy who had 2 60+ point games in a week or so while he was on the Lakers...so we know he could still score...just passes the ball for years. Runs the floor. Outlets. Sets picks.

Has great success.

But hes forever selfish and unwilling to do whats best for the team at his own expense.

You cant shake some labels longterm.

Dirk will never shake ___irk like Jason Kidd wont ever shake ___ason.

Even if he did hit 2,000 threes.

That shit is for life.

[Rolando]

Dr. J.

[StephHamann]

[ArbitraryWater]

One thing that stands out to me, the more you read about Wilt the more apparent it gets that he flicked away some titles... The "selfish" thing is stupid, for the main part of his career he did what the coach wanted / was right for the team.. Now he chucked early on, but he was in a situation to do so.. Could/Would others have done it? Could Kareem or Shaq replicate it? Probably.. But Wilt is more so defined by the glorious 1967 run... In which he put it ALL together and found the right balance.

Anyway back to Pettit, can you imagine how awesome it would be to have more footage of the 1957 Finals? Bob missed out on 2 titles by a hair in that epic 7-game series...