Is Ben Wallace the best defender in league history?

[rodman91]

Hold Shaq in check? I think it is very clear you don't have a damn idea of what you are talking about.

27 ppg and a FG% of 63% (Shaq's Stats in '04 Finals) is not something I would call "hold in check."

Shaq was terrific against the Pistons in the '05 playoffs too. The stats for the 04-05 season aren't available though, so I can't find them.

Also shaq wasn't as good as couple of season's before.

Ben wallace is one of my all time favorite players.He was all about hustle and hardwork.Great rebounder and blocker also was good at stealing ball.He had very quick hands in prime.He was putting fear in opponent's heart.However his one on one defense never been in same level like Rodman's.He wasn't best lock down defender.He wasn't best blocker. (Hakeem,Mutombo etc.)

For me best defenders in nba history Russel,Hakeem & Rodman.Russell for obvious reasons, Hakeem he was one of the greatest shot blocker and he could steal balls as much as guards. Rodman was great lock down defender, he wasn't blocker or stealer but he guarded from Magic & Jordan to Malone&Shaq.

[nycelt84]

[QUOTE=Rose] [

What did I say that was false? Has Ben Wallace not played in the worst era of NBA centers? Did Russell and Wilt not win more games by defensive dominance than any other players? The quality of 60's era centers is way better than those of Wallace's era. He is nowhere close to those 2 and the gap between Russell and second place is pretty large.

[JMT]

[QUOTE=nycelt84]

[

What did I say that was false? Has Ben Wallace not played in the worst era of NBA centers? Did Russell and Wilt not win more games by defensive dominance than any other players? The quality of 60's era centers is way better than those of Wallace's era. He is nowhere close to those 2 and the gap between Russell and second place is pretty large.

The face palm icon appears to be the refuge of those who can't argue their point intelligently.

And let's not even address the fact that all the ISH experts have limited their choices of best defender to post players. Not a perimeter defender mentioned. Of course, they can't google their blocks/rebounds and then speak about their games as if they actually know something.

[Rose]

[QUOTE=nycelt84]

[

What did I say that was false? Has Ben Wallace not played in the worst era of NBA centers? Did Russell and Wilt not win more games by defensive dominance than any other players? The quality of 60's era centers is way better than those of Wallace's era. He is nowhere close to those 2 and the gap between Russell and second place is pretty large.

Because he also played against Prime KG, Timmy, and Shaq. And held all to a pretty decent numbers. NOW he plays in a weak era. but overall when he was younger he played in a pretty solid one. That's two top players, and a top 30 player. Not too also mention Yao, Dwight, Amare(if you count him as a center in PHX) Jermaine O'Neal was pretty top notch for a while as well.

Wilt and Russell basically played against each other. Mikan was gone, and only Wilt played against Kareem.

[Rose]

[QUOTE=JMT]

The face palm icon appears to be the refuge of those who can't argue their point intelligently.

And let's not even address the fact that all the ISH experts have limited their choices of best defender to post players. Not a perimeter defender mentioned. Of course, they can't google their blocks/rebounds and then speak about their games as if they actually know something.

[brandowas]

look at some interviews/quotes from him. Dude understood defense and defensive strategy better than ANYONE of all time

[nbacardDOTnet]

look at some interviews/quotes from him. Dude understood defense and defensive strategy better than ANYONE of all time

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcET9-5MyWk

[nycelt84]

[QUOTE=Rose]

Because he also played against Prime KG, Timmy, and Shaq. And held all to a pretty decent numbers. NOW he plays in a weak era. but overall when he was younger he played in a pretty solid one. That's two top players, and a top 30 player. Not too also mention Yao, Dwight, Amare(if you count him as a center in PHX) Jermaine O'Neal was pretty top notch for a while as well.

Wilt and Russell basically played against each other. Mikan was gone, and only Wilt played against Kareem.

You need to read up on who Bob Pettit, Jerry Lucas,Willis Reed, Walt Bellamy, and Nate Thurmond and then say something as foolish as Wilt and Russell only played against each other.

[Rose]

[QUOTE=nycelt84]

You need to read up on who Bob Pettit, Jerry Lucas,Willis Reed, Walt Bellamy, and Nate Thurmond and then say something as foolish as Wilt and Russell only played against each other.

Okay I forgot Lucas.

But Reed only played against Russell for 5 years. and Bellamy ehhh he was only a 20 point per game scorer for his career, and after his first 8? or so really fell off offensively. dropping from high 20s to low 20s if that. and Thurmond we'll count too

So Pettit, Lucas, and Bellamy(with wilt and russell) are better than
Timmy, Shaq, KG, Jermaine, Yao, Amare and Dwight?Sure the top is better, but I think Ben's era is equally comparable.

[brandowas]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcET9-5MyWk

Awesome video! He had shot blocking down to an art form. This is a newbie question and I'm just asking anyone, what happened to repping? It seemed like a good way to identify good and bad posters is it coming back?

[nycelt84]

[QUOTE=Rose]

Okay I forgot Lucas.

But Reed only played against Russell for 5 years. and Bellamy ehhh he was only a 20 point per game scorer for his career, and after his first 8? or so really fell off offensively. dropping from high 20s to low 20s if that. and Thurmond we'll count too

So Pettit, Lucas, and Bellamy(with wilt and russell) are better than
Timmy, Shaq, KG, Jermaine, Yao, Amare and Dwight?Sure the top is better, but I think Ben's era is equally comparable.

Pettit, Lucas, and Bellamy are all in the HOF. Not to mention that there was never a season where Duncan, Shaq, and those guys you mentioned were all close to their respective primes all at the same time and Jermaine and Yao will mostly likely never make the Hall and it's still to early to tell for Amare and Dwight.

Reed, Lucas, Wilt, Russell, Thurmond, Pettit, and Bellamy by contrast all played in an All-Star game the same year by the way and that was before the fan voting era and players going based on popularity.

[pauk]

when i reaaaaaally think about it
has to be SCOTTIE PIPPEN
he could lock up and shut down anybody from a pg to a pf and even some centers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9vFHYVXtRk

[Clippersfan86]

I agree 100 percent with Rose and his top 5 defenders list. You guys are greatly underrating Wallace. Not only was he a very good man defender with players much bigger than him.. but his playing the passing lanes for steals was incredible for a big his size. Then all of this while being 6'7 240??? He's listed at 6'9 but admitted he was 6'7 ish. As for comparing Centers Shaq is the most unstoppable physical force in LEAGUE HISTORY. I would bet everyone that Shaq was MUCH harder to guard than Wilt.

Wilt may of been the better Center depending on who you ask but to suggest guys in Russell's era were as good as the dominant bigs Wallace has guarded is a JOKE. Wilt was much smaller and weaker than Shaq physically. Like I said.. he's also had to guard the best PF of all time in Duncan multiple times and a ton of other quality bigs. In the Russell/Wilt era.. they were leaps and bounds better than everyone else with a huge talent gap. Bunch of unathletic white boys matching up with them. I'd love to see those 6'6 PF's from the 60's and 70's play in this era. They would get raped.

[Rose]

[QUOTE=nycelt84]

Pettit, Lucas, and Bellamy are all in the HOF. Not to mention that there was never a season where Duncan, Shaq, and those guys you mentioned were all close to their respective primes all at the same time and Jermaine and Yao will mostly likely never make the Hall and it's still to early to tell for Amare and Dwight.

Reed, Lucas, Wilt, Russell, Thurmond, Pettit, and Bellamy by contrast all played in an All-Star game the same year by the way and that was before the fan voting era and players going based on popularity.

Well 2000 was where Ben finally got minutes and by 2002 which is arguably Timmy's best year, and a terrific Shaq year, he was playing big minutes against them. He definitely played against KG's prime. Jermaine and Yao might not make the hall, in fact Jermaine won't. But the fact they were top centers at one point in time doesn't make it irrelevant. They were pretty good players at their best.

Plus Ben played against Shaq and Timmy in the finals. and Jermaine in the playoffs a lot. While Shaq wasn't exactly stopped he still did a pretty decent job all things considered.

And that's true they did all player together. But so did Duncan Shaq and KG on the west. And Jermaine also made the team, and obviously Yao started regardless of whether or not he deserved it.

[pauk]

I agree 100 percent with Rose and his top 5 defenders list. You guys are greatly underrating Wallace. Not only was he a very good man defender with players much bigger than him.. but his playing the passing lanes for steals was incredible for a big his size. Then all of this while being 6'7 240??? He's listed at 6'9 but admitted he was 6'7 ish. As for comparing Centers Shaq is the most unstoppable physical force in LEAGUE HISTORY. I would bet everyone that Shaq was MUCH harder to guard than Wilt.

Wilt may of been the better Center depending on who you ask but to suggest guys in Russell's era were as good as the dominant bigs Wallace has guarded is a JOKE. Wilt was much smaller and weaker than Shaq physically. Like I said.. he's also had to guard the best PF of all time in Duncan multiple times and a ton of other quality bigs. In the Russell/Wilt era.. they were leaps and bounds better than everyone else with a huge talent gap. Bunch of unathletic white boys matching up with them. I'd love to see those 6'6 PF's from the 60's and 70's play in this era. They would get raped.

ya u could be right