The Dark Knight Trilogy

[Clippersfan86]

The Mamba laying down the motha fu**in law in this thread . Seriously spot on with everything. You take 100 people that don't like or dislike Batman and make every single one watch the Burton ones as well as the Nolan ones and I'm 100 percent sure that AT LEAST 75 percent of the people call the new ones better.

I agree the Burton ones had cool aspects this one didn't have such as more comedy... but it's really not even a comparison. This trilogy is a flat out masterpiece that will be enshrined in movie history forever. This is a movie where the last two were up for best picture. If you said that about the Burton ones you would have been laughed at.

I disagree that the Burton ones were more in line with the original plot though. I feel the Nolan ones while altered are still far more realistic as well as "traditional" to the Batman plot.

[embersyc]

what i did not like:

1 - Bane death... the way he died... we spent the whole movie hyping Bane as the most evil thing on the earth... then in less that 5 minutes we realize he is not the brains behind his own operation and Catwoman jumps in a kills him...

Thats the only thing i hated about the whole trilogy.... everything else would be just over picking.

I'd argue that the birth of Two-Face is way worse and by far the weakest plot point in the whole series. The fact that he so easily forgives the Joker for killing Rachel and throws away everything he ever stood for and becomes a crazed killer just didn't make sense in the context of the movie.

[Clippersfan86]

I hated those campy lines from older Batmans.. Especially the one with Mr. Freeze. I hated when they came crashing through the wall and the hole that they left was in the shape of the bat signal and when they knock the gun out of Mr. Freezes hand and it lands ridiculously on top of a tyrannosaurus rex's head.

Did you mean to say corny? Because Burton's Batman movies have some of the most corny lines and situations in cinema history. Almost as corny as Mario Bros movie.

[Brujesino]

I agree with alot of people about the ending being lame.Bane dying the way he did was lame.

The biggest part of the ending i hate 100% that other people dont really care about was Robin.Other people dont really seem to care about him being Robin but it really pissed me off when i watched it.**** that character he aint Robin you cant just create your own ****ing robin.

[Clippersfan86]

I meant campy but yea they are corny and I wasn't just leaving it at Burtons films all of the other ones I lump into the same category. Obviously #1 isn't as bad as what followed but it was all down hill from there.

How you liking Amazon? What do you do?

Pick mostly and pack 20 percent of the time. You man? I don't like the fact that they said "overtime opportunities" when hired but they actually meant mandatory 55-60 hours a week for a month straight for holidays . My body is getting beat the fu** up every day man. How about you?

[Clippersfan86]

Just had my first mandatory 50 week this week (yesterday in fact). I knew it was mandatory like that though going in. I had a friend that worked there two years ago and he gave me the skinny. I'm just made that I started off with 20 hours ATO and didn't know about it until after they went black out.

I do inbound stowing.. it sucks. They give you some pretty unreasonable rates to follow given the items and space (or lack there of). I've helped out some other areas too, no sort stow and some dock work.

Nice man. Yea we didn't get a heads up at all. Also we have a 6 point system. Every 3 months you get it reset and a call off (for sick or personal) is 1.5 points... so 4 sick days per 3 months. Anymore than that = instant termination. Which sucks when you're working a 6th day and have no time to get shit done. I've already had to use two personal days.

I agree 100 percent about the rates. They give unrealistic rates for everybody. They preach safety and quality yet the people with the best rates that get praised always halfass the quality aspect, break safety rules etc. In otherwords it's impossible to meet their number requirements AND be safe+maintain quality.

[Clippersfan86]

Yea, we have the six point system too. I've used one.. just mad because had I known about ATO I would have used that instead of getting a point .

Same here man, people who get the best rates just shove shit in the bins regardless of quality. The Coach will come around (he's a Jamaican) and says Ronald (sounds like Rhoanald) you busted your cart again.. and I say Sam your space is busted.. there isn't just a place where I can put 60 teapots in, I gotta move around and look.

yea man it's pretty fu**ing cutthroat for sure. Yesterday for the first time (been there about 4 weeks now) I got a written notice about my rates not being up to par from the 21st-22nd. It's not an official write up but still made me laugh that they trip so hard on it.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

How exactly was his character ruined?

He's IMO easily the second best villain both in his arc in the story and performance of all-time.

1) Ledger's Joker (TDK)
2) Hardy's Bane (TDK Rises)

The rest ...

You seem like a HUGE Batman head. Got a question for ya: In your opinion, what made Bruce "stronger" than Bane during their final fight? They were both part of the 'League of Shadows'. Why and how was Bruce able to defeat him?

...And how do you think Bane would fair vs. Ra's Al Ghul? Same ideology, but Bane was obviously a bit more extreme (in Ra's' eyes at least).

[andgar923]

Bane has been my favorite villain (Batman) for a few years now, even before it was announced that he would be the villain for the movie. We've discussed it in here a few times but, they had everything right. He was the guy that was born in the prison. He rises out of the prison, smart, capable and a badass. I liked their interpretation of the venom serum. And then bing bang boom, they switch it and give it all to Talia?!?! Totally ruined it, then to ruin it even more they have catwoman bust in on a bat bike and just shoot him point blank with the same gun that destroyed all those cars blocking the bridge.. Just let Batman fight it out with him, maybe not kill him but he doesn't have to save him either (like with Ra's). You could have had Bane and the bomb blow up together somehow dropping over the ocean or some shit.

Yeah

[TheFan]

You seem like a HUGE Batman head. Got a question for ya: In your opinion, what made Bruce "stronger" than Bane during their final fight? They were both part of the 'League of Shadows'. Why and how was Bruce able to defeat him?

when Bruce made the jump without the rope he learned that fighting with fear makes you stronger than fighting fearless.

That knowledge made him push harder in his second fight against Bane.

[The Mamba]

A shame that they ruined his character in 60 seconds.

How exactly was his character ruined?

He's IMO easily the second best villain both in his arc in the story and performance of all-time.

1) Ledger's Joker (TDK)
2) Hardy's Bane (TDK Rises)

The rest ...

Bane dying the way he did was lame.

How was Bane dying lame? What were they supposed to do?

He already conceited defeat to the Batman "I broke you"

Batman came in there, broke his mask and then molly whopped his ass and bested him fair and square. Bane needed Talia's help to gain the upper hand again.

But Batman doesn't kill, and Bane isn't going to be someone who is caught. It made total sense that Catwoman be the one to save Batman (the point of her character arc was to show Batman made a positive impact on someone, and she's loyal ... like a cat) and blast Bane away with CANON FIRE from the bat-pod.

He took a blast from a very large canon, and took it like a champ. How is that lame? After he was defeated by Bruce, his character became pointless. Yet he still managed to have another terrific line of dialogue

"You'll just have to imagine the fire"

And then Hathaway's delivery of her line after offing Bane was super on point.

**** that character he aint Robin you cant just create your own ****ing robin.

Nah, you just didn't get it. Nolan and Bale went on record saying they didn't want Robin in these films. And he wasn't in these films. Gone is the corny 12 year old, completely un-realistic vigilante side kick who makes quips and wears elf boots in red and green.

Instead, we get a brilliant re-invention of the character that makes more sense, has more heart and ultimately a lot cooler.

And he isn't Robin. That's why you're hung up on it. His name, yes is literally Robin. Which is fan service. But he's an original character who takes the best elements of Robin's purpose from the comics and makes it more believable and nuanced. What, you thought they were going to give us Dick Grayson, Tim Drake, and Jason Todd? There has been tons of Robins in the comics.

Instead we get an amazing amalgamation of all the Robin characters, molded into a new character who serves Robin's greatest purposes:

- Inspired by the Batman
- Bring optimism in the face of cynicism
- Re-inspires Bruce Wayne
- Connects to Bruce on an orphan level
- Carries the legacy / mantle of the Batman when Wayne is done

Robin John Blake is an interesting character. He's optimistic in a cynical surrounding, he's angry and driven without being an annoying and edgy teenager / child type character. He's smart, and idealistic. He almost represents a son figure to both Wayne and Gordon. He represents the both of them at various points in their life.

He actually is supposed to be insinuated as the next Batman at the end of the film. The entire trilogy was about Wayne's goal of creating a symbol, an idea, a persona ... a legend. He found a replacement he trusted, who he connected with, leaving Gotham in good hands.

Bruce Wayne succeeded in his quest started in Batman Begins.

Legends don't die. Symbols can't be killed. They transcend one man's life. That's why Robin is left the tools if Gotham should ever need a dark knight to sink their hands into the filth to protect the city and act beyond the law. Afterall, laws, men, political officials can be bent and broken ... not always serving justice.

White knights are fine, but dark knights will always be needed at some point to protect. Only wolfs can defeat other wolfs.

Nolan's ending was a brilliant idea. He even found a way to adapt a very corny character, and make it believable and interesting. I never thought I could ever like a Robin character in the Batman mythos until Nolan gave is John Blake.

[The Mamba]

You seem like a HUGE Batman head. Got a question for ya: In your opinion, what made Bruce "stronger" than Bane during their final fight? They were both part of the 'League of Shadows'. Why and how was Bruce able to defeat him?

Bruce wasn't "stronger" per se, but the whole theme of "the fire rises" meant Bruce at the start of the film was so fear-less that he longed for death.

As Batman he wasn't in his prime in this film. He's in his 40's, and has a beaten broken body. As explained when in the pit (which is a brilliant realistic adaptation of the lazarus pit) he needed to regain that fear of losing his life. The fire rising in Bruce was to actually LIVE again. Bruce could only have a life if he sacrificed the Batman persona. Otherwise he'd always be stuck in Gotham, stuck in his obsession and depression.

When you have fear, you can produce adrenaline. Not wanting to see his city (a physical representation of his father's legacy) tortured or blown to hell in an atomic blaze, he fights harder / stronger / faster because he has the renewed sense of urgency to live life again.

Tactic wise, after his stint in the prison he knows the mask is an anesthetic that makes Bane feel no pain, thus making him invincible. So he beats the breathing device off of Bane's face.

But I don't think Bane could've won a fair fight v.s. Batman in TDK. That is him at the PEAK of his abilities.

And how do you think Bane would fair vs. Ra's Al Ghul? Same ideology, but Bane was obviously a bit more extreme (in Ra's' eyes at least).

In a pure fight? Pre mask ... Ra's. After the mask, Bane ... easily. Given the anesthetic.

As for their approach to terrorism. Ra's did his in a fashion where it wasn't as blunt. He wanted to make it seem like he would manipulate the city to killing itself through the bio fear toxin weapon. Bane tortures Gotham to punish Bruce, but his means were more militaristic. Clinical, even. Much like the way he fights.

It's interesting the difference of the LOS from Begins to Rises. In BEGINS the LOS under Ra's is a gang of ninja assassins. Under Bane, they are more militaristic. They're mercenaries. Ra's operated from the shadows, Bane was blunt like a dictator. He came at you head on like a military leader.

To the point. He wanted to just off Gotham with a neutron bomb. That's a lot more efficient and brutal if you ask me. Ra's wanted Gotham to be cleansed bu re-built. Bane wanted it to completely burn.

I think Bane being revealed to be doing it for love doesn't take away his bad ass nature. And it doesn't make him a puppet. Bane and Talia co-lead the LOS. If anything it amplifies how bad ass Bane was. People do crazy things for love / redemption. Plus, it's accurate to the source. In the comics Bane was a part of the LOS for a time, and hooked up with Talia. In the comics he's a hard ass, but has a heart. It makes him more layered and dimensional.

The only villain who should be visualized as a pure force of evil, without reason is the Joker. He's a finite character. He's there to show a mirror to society's face.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Thanks for responding, Mamba. Fantastic analysis bro.

In a fist fight?? I like Bane. If Ra's were to win it'd be because he was more cunning and used surroundings and maybe all them ninjas helping out. I don't think Ra's would have just thrown leather with Bane straight up.

Or just pushing their agendas. Either way I agree. Bane was an entirely different animal.

I remember talking to Dondadda about this. Is it now a consensus that Talia wasn't needed and totally irrelevant? Not only did she destroy Bane's character, but the vibe of the movie. Save for Levitt finding the cave and learning that Bruce is alive, I just don't see why she had to be introduced. That killed it for me.

Bane, where is the bomb?
Actually, I'm the real villain *Stab*.
Talia?
Yep! Bane, finish this guy off.
POW!
Thanks Catwoman, that was close.

[TheFan]

it depends... if you are talking about Ra's from the first movie... he is old and way out of his prime... Bruce defeated him twice, when escaping the ninja lair and during the final fight in Gotham...

now if you are talking about prime Ra's Al Ghul... he is probably the greatest assassin in the Batman universe, he is only truly matched by a prime Batman...

[Smoke117]

The Dark Knight is massively overrated. When Heath ledger/the Joker isn't on the screen the movie is basically long winded and dull. He is about the only thing that brings life to the 2nd sequel. The first movie is easily the best of the Nolan movies.