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Old 01-30-2016, 05:37 AM   #31
julizaver
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Default Re: Would prime Jordan or Payton be able top stop Curry?

If it is their solely intention they could do damage, after all they are both all-time defenders. Payton could spoil Curry's party for let's say 3 of 6 or 7 games, but it doesn't mean that Payton is the better player.

Prime MJ could guard any perimeter player, remember the gif when Iverson (smaller and quicker than Curry) cross-overed MJ (34 years old) and MJ recovered and almost blocked the shot. MJ got the energy to pursue Curry all over the court and I think that Curry (today) would be still like 22-23 ppg on 40-43 % for a series.

The reason why Curry still would got 20 some points is simple. There are 4 other teamates on the floor, they could find him open, they could cover him, they represent additional 4 obstacles for any defender who chase Curry as the later could maneuver around them searching for space. Curry had the skills, the handling and the quick shot release, he could score from half-court with ease - no way of completely stoping such player. Curry and Durant in my opinion are the two best offensive players in the world right now.
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Old 01-30-2016, 06:13 AM   #32
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Default Re: Would prime Jordan or Payton be able top stop Curry?

Quote:
Originally Posted by julizaver
If it is their solely intention they could do damage, after all they are both all-time defenders. Payton could spoil Curry's party for let's say 3 of 6 or 7 games, but it doesn't mean that Payton is the better player.

Prime MJ could guard any perimeter player, remember the gif when Iverson (smaller and quicker than Curry) cross-overed MJ (34 years old) and MJ recovered and almost blocked the shot. MJ got the energy to pursue Curry all over the court and I think that Curry (today) would be still like 22-23 ppg on 40-43 % for a series.

The reason why Curry still would got 20 some points is simple. There are 4 other teamates on the floor, they could find him open, they could cover him, they represent additional 4 obstacles for any defender who chase Curry as the later could maneuver around them searching for space. Curry had the skills, the handling and the quick shot release, he could score from half-court with ease - no way of completely stoping such player. Curry and Durant in my opinion are the two best offensive players in the world right now.

So, what makes you think Jordan is so much better on D than Kawhi Leonard, for example?
Because Kawhi sure as heck couldn't stop Curry the other day. And hand checking alone sure as hell won't bring Curry down to "22-23ppg at 40-43ppg".

Last edited by brain drain : 01-30-2016 at 06:18 AM.
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Old 01-30-2016, 07:07 AM   #33
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Default Re: Would prime Jordan or Payton be able top stop Curry?

Quote:
Originally Posted by brain drain

Kawhi sure as heck couldn't stop Curry the other day. And hand checking alone sure as hell won't bring Curry down to "22-23ppg at 40-43ppg".

So, what makes you think Jordan is so much better on D than Kawhi Leonard, for example?

The same reason no one has brought up Pippen itt.

Kawhi is a slower SF (compared to Jordan) and rarely guarded PG's... Otoh, Jordan was a lightning-quick 2-guard that guarded point guards all the time..

Jordan had superior lateral quickness and was a superior perimeter, on-ball defender of PG's than Kawhi or Pippen, who rarely guarded point guards.

There is plenty of footage of Jordan locking down Gary Payton, Isiah Thomas, John Stockton, Kevin Johnson, Tim Hardaway, Rod Strickland, etc., etc.

Footage like this doesn't exist for Pippen or Kawhi locking down PG's because they rarely guarded short PG's - instead, Kawhi and Pippen were taller, slower SF's compared to a guy like MJ, who was one of the quickest SG's of all time... Tbh, Pippen wasn't all that good at staying in front of quick ballhandlers.
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Old 01-30-2016, 07:21 AM   #34
La Frescobaldi
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Default Re: Would prime Jordan or Payton be able top stop Curry?

Quote:
Originally Posted by brain drain
So, what makes you think Jordan is so much better on D than Kawhi Leonard, for example?
Because Kawhi sure as heck couldn't stop Curry the other day. And hand checking alone sure as hell won't bring Curry down to "22-23ppg at 40-43ppg".

that's pretty much my view too.

neither of those guys are stopping Curry if Leonard didn't even slow him down and I'm not sure either one of those guys is better at defense than Leonard. no not sure at all
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Old 01-30-2016, 07:33 AM   #35
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Default Re: Would prime Jordan or Payton be able top stop Curry?

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Originally Posted by La Frescobaldi
that's pretty much my view too.

neither of those guys are stopping Curry if Leonard didn't even slow him down and I'm not sure either one of those guys is better at defense than Leonard. no not sure at all
You don't think Jordan and Payton were much quicker and guarded PG's much more than Kawhi?

They obviously were, and did
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Old 01-30-2016, 07:35 AM   #36
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Default Re: Would prime Jordan or Payton be able top stop Curry?

Jordan is not in the discussion, Phil would hide him on other players so Pippen could defend the best player. I'd say either prime Kobe or prime Pippen are the only players who could lock Curry up.
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Old 01-30-2016, 07:39 AM   #37
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Default Re: Would prime Jordan or Payton be able top stop Curry?

.
Pippen couldn't handle quick wings with good handle like Hill or Kobe:






Here's Kobe shaking his head after breaking Pippen BADLY in 99' - Pippen is joke to him:


..



But just a few months earlier, Jordan had no problem stuffing Kobe's crossover in 98' ASG:






Here's another one - Pippen can't handle Grant off-the-dribble - he can't stay in front:






But MJ can in the exact same spot - he stays in front of Grant every step of the way and forces wild shot:





The reason MJ was so much better defending quick ballhandlers like Hill, Kobe or Westbrook is because he was a 2-guard, and was the frequently the primary, all-game defender on quick point guards.

For example, MJ was matched up against Gary Payton from the TIP-OFF in Game 3 and Game 5 of the NBA Finals and was the main defender throughout the game..

MJ was also the main defender and matched up from the tip-off against Isiah Thomas and Rod Strickland.. And he was frequently matched up with other short, quick point guards like John Stockton, Kevin Johnson, Tim Hardaway, etc., etc.

MJ's far greater experience playing quick ballhandling guards and his superior athleticism made him a better perimeter defender than Pippen..
.
.

Last edited by 3ball : 01-30-2016 at 07:41 AM.
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Old 01-30-2016, 07:39 AM   #38
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Default Re: Would prime Jordan or Payton be able top stop Curry?

Quote:
Originally Posted by G0ATbe
Jordan is not in the discussion, Phil would hide him on other players so Pippen could defend the best player. I'd say either prime Kobe or prime Pippen are the only players who could lock Curry up.
Complete nonsense - Pippen almost never guarded point guards, let alone short, quick point guards, while MJ guarded them all the time.

MJ was easily the better and quicker on-ball, perimeter defender.. It's not even close, as you can see in the previous post.
.

Last edited by 3ball : 01-30-2016 at 07:42 AM.
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Old 01-30-2016, 07:52 AM   #39
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Default Re: Would prime Jordan or Payton be able top stop Curry?

Quote:
Originally Posted by G0ATbe
Jordan is not in the discussion, Phil would hide him on other players so Pippen could defend the best player. I'd say either prime Kobe or prime Pippen are the only players who could lock Curry up.

can't hide him against the Warriors he'd just have to defend the other Splash Brother
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Old 01-30-2016, 08:45 AM   #40
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Default Re: Would prime Jordan or Payton be able top stop Curry?

Shut down? No. Significantly impact volume and efficiency? Yes.
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Old 01-30-2016, 09:07 AM   #41
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Default Re: Would prime Jordan or Payton be able top stop Curry?

Curry would get buckets on either of them. And He'd be just as good in that era too. Pace was significantly higher in the 90's. And good lord I'd love to see Steph play when the line was pulled in 95/96. It would be child abuse
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Old 01-30-2016, 09:19 AM   #42
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Default Re: Would prime Jordan or Payton be able top stop Curry?

He's like Mark Price in steroids. He'd be fine.
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Old 01-30-2016, 10:06 AM   #43
julizaver
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Default Re: Would prime Jordan or Payton be able top stop Curry?

Quote:
Originally Posted by brain drain
So, what makes you think Jordan is so much better on D than Kawhi Leonard, for example?
Because Kawhi sure as heck couldn't stop Curry the other day. And hand checking alone sure as hell won't bring Curry down to "22-23ppg at 40-43ppg".

Prime MJ was quicker, more atletic aside from the fact that he was a guard and more used to guard SGs. Leonard playing vs Curry was a desperate move by Spurs as they were torn apart by Warriors. Kawhi is a great defender for his position. That's it - plain and simple.
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Old 01-30-2016, 10:08 AM   #44
brain drain
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Default Re: Would prime Jordan or Payton be able top stop Curry?

Those vids of Kobe and Grant don't say much about defending Curry, who is smaller, quicker, has much better handles, a quicker release off the dribble and a much more accurate shot and is absolutely deadly from deep.
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Old 01-30-2016, 10:11 AM   #45
julizaver
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Default Re: Would prime Jordan or Payton be able top stop Curry?

Quote:
Originally Posted by La Frescobaldi
that's pretty much my view too.

neither of those guys are stopping Curry if Leonard didn't even slow him down and I'm not sure either one of those guys is better at defense than Leonard. no not sure at all

I am not agree, it seems that people tend to forget how quick prime Jordan was. Kawhi a little bit too big and slow for Curry, which doesn't undermine Kawhi's qualities, it was a desperate move by SPURS.
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