Scottie Pippen in the playoffs from 1991-93

[OldSchoolBBall]

I've only seen one game from the Sixers-Bucks series in '91 and watching AR go from putting like 13 ppg in the season to torching the dude for 30+ and average like 24 ppg on 60%, isn't exactly going to help me think he was a "good" defender.

Regarding AR's increased production vs. the Sixers:

1) Robertson's minutes increased from 32.1 mpg during the regular season to 39.3 mpg in the playoffs that year, a ~23% jump.

2) Ricky Pierce (22.5 ppg) and Dale Ellis (19.3 ppg), the Bucks' two leading scorers that year (they were traded for each other midway through the season; only one was on the team at any given point, but you're still losing a 19-23 ppg scorer for the playoffs) missed the playoffs, leading to an increased scoring role for ARob in the postseason. His FGA went from 11.2 to 16.3 accordingly.

3) It's a 3 game sample and he had two very good games, which is far too small a sample size to pass judgment on.

You act as if AR's role, minutes, and usage all stayed the same and he just exploded. No.

[juju151111]

MJ does jumpers if 6-3 or 6-7 guys are on him. Look at this game http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mwSpGOH8X4 He took jumpers all gm. Mj does wat he feels like doing. The knicks forced him into alot of jumpers in 92, but yet he still was taking nuts on wilkins/Starks/ewing

[Abraham Lincoln]

And then on to the Sixers series. Bulls had a great matchup again with Jordan getting a 6'2 poor defensive shooting guard on him and the Bulls decided to exploit it for all it was worth. It was a good strategy to give MJ an unrestrained green light since he literally had to just shoot, with Hawkins/Dawkins having 0 chance of bothering his shot

Try again, Kobe fan. Not only was Hawk superior as a defensive man to your idol, but he was also a superior 3 point marksman and entry passer.

and the lane being "anchored" by Charles Barkley

Don't underestimate the Mahorn & Barkley in the paint. Superior rebounders and defensive intimidators & stoppers to that of the bigs on your new favorite team. It astounds me how such such poor defensive seven foot stiffs can be so effective. NBA Basketball was once played with more muscle, position, & savvy rather than mere fragile length.

[Roundball_Rock]

. I can't think of a defensive small forward as good as him, and the only players I can think of being as capable in the point forward role are Lebron and perhaps Grant Hill in his prime. Not to mention that he was a good 3 point shooter, could post up and score with a little jump hook or bank shot, he was excellent in the open court and a great penetrator. Of course with his 7'2" wingspan and athleticism he was also one of the best finishers of his day. All of that is why you count on him to average an efficient 19-22 ppg.

And finally, a part of Pippen's game that goes overlooked so often is his rebounding. How many other small forwards in the last 20 years were getting 8-9 rpg?

Great post. Was there anything on the court Pippen could not do? Yeah, he was not great at everything. He was never more than a good three point shooter but he was good to great at every facet of the game. He had no weakness.

Regarding 8-9 boards, the only one I can think of is Hill. It isn't just his raw totals that are impressive. They look even better in context. In 94' the other top SF's were grabbing 5-6 boards (Wilkins, Mullin, Schrempf, and Mashburn) while Pippen was at 9 rpg! Pippen was 23rd in the league in rebounding in 94' and 17th-18th in 95' until Jordan, himself a great rebounder at his position, came back. Even with Rodman gobbling up so many rebounds he averaged 6.5-7 ish boards on the second three-peat team. People also forget that in 2000 it wasn't towering Sabonis or PF Wallace who led Portland in rebounding in the playoffs. It was a 6'7" old man whose body had been ravaged by a myriad of injuries and mileage (10+ seasons, deep playoff runs practically every year, 2 Olympics).

This is just from '91-'93. He was beasting for most of the 1990 playoffs too. I know boxscores from games before 1991 aren't available, so I'll lift the curtain on Pippen's 1990 playoffs run, when apparently he wasn't a legit second option or "giving enough help" according to a misinformed group....

Great stuff on 90'! The OP is part of a series since Pippen had so many great playoff moments you can't fit them into one thread. There will be 1994-98, 1999-03 and 1988-90 threads too.

I sort of wish Pippen came into the league a couple of years earlier. He could have really used Jordan's injury in '86 as an opportunity to develop his scoring skills a lot more when he was young (and despite playing with someone who took 25+ shots a game, he still developed significantly and became a 20-22 ppg at 50% type of guy). There was a lot of untapped scoring potential in Pippen imo. Especially in the early years, I could see him getting close to 25 ppg as the game was more open in 1988-1991 than 1994.

Good points. I too wish Pippen was a bit younger. If only Pippen was 31 or 32, not 34, in 2000... (or alternatively, the Malone charging injury in the 98' finals did not happen and Pip was able to decline in a natural fashion, instead of suddenly going from a top 5 superstar to a borderline all-star as he did literally overnight due to that injury!)

Might I add pissed off for no reason...MJ=GOAT. Period. MJ>>>Pippen. Period.

What more does these MJ groupies want? A Blow Job for Jordan and a hand job for his friend Bugz Bunny?

Great question. What difference, in reality, does it make for Jordan's legacy if Pippen is rated 17th or 37th all-time? Jordan is still Jordan!

, i can't recall how many times loki has posted the game 7 boxscore completely out of context, followed shortly by "see...Jordan had no help before 1991!".

Nothing on the rest of the 1990 playoffs. No mentions of his injuries in 96', 97', 98' when they talk about Pippen's FG %'s in the playoffs in those years. (funny how they never post his FG %'s from 1991-93 or never mention that his points per shot were solid even in 1996-98 but he was taking a lot of 3's) No mention of what happened in the 98' finals when discussing his record from 1999-2003. There actually are several people here who think Pippen in 99' or 00' was basically the same player as 98' Pippen. We know why some of them hold that position but others hold it because the constant out of context propaganda regarding his record in Portland. 2000 was one of my favorite Pippen seasons yet these guys try to turn it into a negative.

Scottie actually had a very good season in 1990, unfortunately the game 7 against Detroit has overshadowed it over the years. Had he not been dealing with that migraine, people would probably view that season much differently.

The problem isn't really random people. It is people with a certain agenda. How come you never hear of the bad performances some others had in similar situations? You can cherry pick with anyone who was in the playoffs a lot. For example, Game 7 84' finals for Magic Johnson. I guess Magic sucked in the playoffs too?

Even in his rookie year, he saved his best game of the season for a do or die game vs Cavs in the playoffs. Roundball mentioned it in another thread, though I haven't watched it yet.

That was also his first career start. Think of the pressure he was under. He was a rookie (with a bad back--another fact you never hear about). Game 5. Win or get eliminated. If the team loses, it is the team's fault. If they win, it is all Jordan. How does the "choker" respond? With the best game of his career at that point.

Kareem complained about his reoccurring migraines frequently throughout his career. In the 85 Finals he was actually puking from one before a game but still managed to put up a 30/10. They're not something that should be written off lightly.

Yeah--Kareem still has that problem. He uses weed for his migraines.

Stay real...This is why you, Round-Ball, Shaqattack, Loki aka Oldschoolbball, are my favorite posters.

Thanks.

[Fatal9]

....

Right. Increased minutes automatically makes have a career series . He may very well be an average defender, but anytime I see this dude he's always getting torched, even when he wasn't physically outmatched. In regards to the AR-MJ matchup, I think that hard foul might have been the best thing that happened to MJ that series. He came out in completely jumpshot-mode in G3 and dropped 48. It was funny seeing AR (who does have good hops like you mentioned...even somewhat dunked on Jordan in the series) try to make up for a 4 inch difference (like getting a SF to defend a C) and attempt to meet Jordan's release point, and MJ just completely disrespecting his reach and simply firing over him. Again, I would rather this be in another thread. You're getting awfully emotional over a comment regarding something that is pretty obvious (that a. Jordan had a very nice height/length advantage and b. he and the Bulls were exploiting it very nicely).

[ShaqAttack3234]

I never like to get into the Jordan vs Pippen thing because it's often just one side diminishing the accomplishments of the other. I do think that Pippen can be underrated, I think he was a fantastic player and a legit superstar. His all around skillset is among the best I've ever seen. As for Jordan, if I had to pick a best player to ever play the game, it'd probably be Jordan, but I don't think it's fair to say having not seen much prime Kareem or Wilt.

Stay real...This is why you, Round-Ball, Shaqattack, Loki aka Oldschoolbball, are my favorite posters.

Glad to hear it, I appreciate it.

[juju151111]

I never like to get into the Jordan vs Pippen thing because it's often just one side diminishing the accomplishments of the other. I do think that Pippen can be underrated, I think he was a fantastic player and a legit superstar. His all around skillset is among the best I've ever seen. As for Jordan, if I had to pick a best player to ever play the game, it'd probably be Jordan, but I don't think it's fair to say having not seen much prime Kareem or Wilt.



Glad to hear it, I appreciate it.

Their isn't any Mj vs Pippen. MJ>>>>>>Pippen

[ShaqAttack3234]

Their isn't any Mj vs Pippen. MJ>>>>>>Pippen

Obviously nobody is arguing Pippen was as good as Jordan, I meant the arguments always seem to be either a Jordan or Pippen fan trying to diminish the other's accomplishments to make their favorite player look better. I try to stay out of that.

[Roundball_Rock]

MJ>>>>>>Pippen

Everyone agrees on that.

[Alhazred]

The problem isn't really random people. It is people with a certain agenda. How come you never hear of the bad performances some others had in similar situations? You can cherry pick with anyone who was in the playoffs a lot. For example, Game 7 84' finals for Magic Johnson. I guess Magic sucked in the playoffs too?

Believe it or not, it's not simply diehard Jordan jockers who believe this. I've talked to some old school Pistons and Celtics fans back in my Youtube days of basketball discussion who stick him with that label. Well, that's what the dumbasses think, at least. I remember this one Bird fanboy who called Scottie a "dumb kid". He hated Jordan, too.

By the way, good point about certain legends having their choke moments forgotten. Larry Bird actually had a three game streak of scoring 8, 8 then 12 points in three consecutive games in the 1981 Finals. He made up for it with excellent passing and rebounding, but it's funny to hear of a guy like Bird having shooting troubles, especially against a team that didn't even win half it's games that year! Of course, he and Magic both deserve the title of clutch. Same for Scottie.

Speaking of Magic, check his 1981 performance in the first round. He actually air balled a game deciding shot! Bill Simmons mentions it in his book.

Yeah--Kareem still has that problem. He uses weed for his migraines.

Yep, I've read about that. Him, Parish and Walton are the greatest pot-smoking centers of all-time, imo.

[Fatal9]

By the way, good point about certain legends having their choke moments forgotten. Larry Bird actually had a three game streak of scoring 8, 8 then 12 points in the third consecutive game of the 1981 Finals. He made up for it with excellent passing and rebounding, but it's funny to hear of a guy like Bird having shooting troubles, especially against a team that didn't even win half it's games that year!

You're an idiot. Looks like someone didn't watch a single game from the series, understand Bird's role with the team at that point in his career or grasp the meaning of the word "choke". There are many other series to point to for Bird shooting poorly, playing poorly or "choking" and that is not one of them. Like seriously...you actually give the '81 finals series as an example of Bird "choking"? Wow

[ShaqAttack3234]

Although, these type of arguments should be your cup of tea...With the amount of Kobe fans who diminsh Shaq...(There's no diminishments on your part concerning Bryant though.)

Funny thing is, Jordan fans turn into Shaq fans in that and find a way to underrate the hell out of Kobe....Shocker..

I admit I can probably sound like a Kobe hater at times when I'm going back and forth with annoying trolls, although more or less to make a point.

Rationally, most can agree that Kobe is top 10 or atleast in the discussion all time and currently, when healthy he's still top 2-3 in the league.

[Alhazred]

You're an idiot. Looks like someone didn't watch a single game from the series, understand Bird's role with the team at that point in his career or grasp the meaning of the word "choke". There are many other series to point to for Bird shooting poorly, playing poorly or "choking" and that is not one of them. Like seriously...you actually give the '81 finals series as an example of Bird "choking"? Wow

Take it up with the NBA, then.

http://www.nba.com/history/finals/19801981.html

The Celtics awoke with stifling defense and a 94-71 blowout of the Rockets at the Summit. Cedric Maxwell did much of the work for Boston, as Bird was held to just eight points. Late in the game he and Reid got into a little fracas, which seemed to be more a result of Bird's frustrations than anything else.

Harris tightened things up in Game 4 by using just six players. Bird was again held to just eight points, while Malone ruled the inside. Houston got a lead, then held on for a 91-86 win that evened the series. Afterward, Malone had plenty to say. He told the media he could get four guys off the streets of Petersburg, Va., his hometown, and beat the Celtics. "I don't think they're all that good," he said. "I don't think they can stop us from doing what we want to do."

It seemed to be just the emotional spark the Celtics were looking for. "The man threw down a challenge," Maxwell replied, "and this is a team that responds well to challenges."

In Game 5, Reid continued his defensive domination of Bird, holding him to 12 points. The Boston forward was averaging nearly 16 rebounds and eight assists during the series, but his shooting was nothing short of frosty. The rest of the Celtics, particularly Maxwell, took up the slack. They won at home, 109-80, to take a three-games-to-two lead.

I have a lot of respect for Larry, he was an amazing player. I am not trying to tear him down, only supporting Scottie's case.

Also, I wasn't even talking about the whole series, only those three games. He had a great game 6 and made the game-deciding three.

The series returned to Houston on Thursday, May 14, and Bird broke out of his slump. Boston had a six-point lead at the half and kept it down the stretch. When Houston pulled close late in the fourth, Bird came downcourt and laced in his only three-pointer of the series, which propelled Boston to a 102-91 win and the team's 14th championship.

Afterward, in the locker room, Bird stole Auerbach's lit cigar and puffed impishly. "We're the champions," he said as he broke into a coughing spell.

"He's just one of a kind," said Fitch.

[robertshaw_1]

Top Ten Players Ever in Order.

1) Wilt Chamberlain
2) Kareem Abdul Jabbar
3) Michael Jordan
4) Hakeem Olajuwon
5) Larry Bird
6) Magic Johnson
7) Kobe Bryant
8) Scottie Pippen
9) Oscar Robertson
10) Tim Duncan


11) Shaquille O

[ShaqAttack3234]

Well, you dont come off as a Kobe hater to me...There's a difference between flat out hating for no reason and just owning idiot fans who have no clue.

Well, I don't consider myself a Kobe hater either. I'm not sure I'd call myself a fan, although I loved how he was playing early this season with his post game when he was shooting near 50%. For the most part I have enjoyed watching him play particularly from 2000-2003 and 2006-2009. I admit there were stretches were I thought he was selfish and didn't like the way he played(early 2000-2001 season, 2004 finals, January of this season). But I've always respected his skillset, work ethic and toughness.

I do find myself defending him when people call his MVP undeserved or that Gasol is the MVP of the team(which is both trash), but I just wish people would stop putting him up there with Jordan and acting like he was as good as Shaq during the 3peat because that's the other extreme.