Derrick Rose's 2011 MVP Season vs 2015 Stephen Curry?

[Dave3]

Like I said before if 8% is high what is Terry's 60% higher than Dirks in the finals mean.

Terry shot 7% higher than Dirk (TS%) in the finals, not 60%. And it means very little considering their volume wasn't very close at 26 ppg to 18 ppg. The TS% argument matters a lot more when, you know, the players score at a similar volume? This is like comparing DeAndre Jordan to Kobe to try and minimize the importance of FG%.

[DMAVS41]

Terry shot 7% higher than Dirk (TS%) in the finals, not 60%. And it means very little considering their volume wasn't very close 26 ppg to 18 ppg. The TS% argument matters a lot more when, you know, the players score at a similar volume? This is like comparing DeAndre Jordan to Kobe to try and minimize the importance of FG%.

This.

[Pointguard]

2011 D Rose -
Ranked ~#34 in the league in RAPM
Bulls were +6.1 points/100 poss without him

Since I know you are Dmavs un-seeing eye dog... Didn't CJ Watson have a better RAPM than Rose. Great stat!!!! But I have three hilarious threads where you and Dmav's totally embarrass yourselves with this RAPM. Claiming Watson was better defensively than Rose. CJ Watson would have a starting job in the league if he could guard starters. He barely can guard 2nd unit guards. Rose was put on Wade in the finals.

DRose won the award because Tibbs and the Bulls bench (Korver, Taj, CJ, Asik) were >>> expectations. He didn't win the award because of his personal contributions to the team.

This is why watching the games is so much more important than looking at stats. Korver was disappointing that year. Shot went south after the AS game. Without Rose the only one that showed much the next year or two was Taj.

Just read others posts.
We aren't talking about small samples....and I have no clue what the **** you are talking about in the finals. Dirk was clearly the best Mavs player in that series...arguing against that shows how ****ing dumb you actually are.

Bwhahahahaaa, you are such a lost clown... you are proving my point. TS% is crap. But I know it takes a looong time for you to catch on... about four or five years?

Rose does what to players? We've seen virtually nothing from Rose that means anything.

What is this... well over two dozen times? Name me a starting perimeter player that had defensively blasted the elite at his position continuously almost unanimously. Even when he played at 70% it rarely happened. It rarely happens in the history of the game. And you want to act like his defense wasn't good. I still don't know of a point guard that remotely came close to guarding a healthy Wade like Rose did in the finals. Heck, I don't know of any player doing that.

But this requires you and Hurricane Kid having eyes worth seeing with.

He was a good, but not great player in 11 that choked horribly when it mattered most.

You are the desperate hater I've ever seen. You want to believe this so hard you repeat it over and over. How many times have there been a 22 year old win two playoff series on his back??? Maybe three or four times in the history of the game? And all of the other guys had a team that could break a trap. Then Rose, without another player stepping up, guarded Wade, a guy that totally devoured a dirk lead Dallas team himself in the finals, down. He had a legit claim to being tired.

Since you went there... A choke is what Dirk did. A sucky defensive team - the worst in the playoffs - shutting him down. Rose at least, had a fight in him. And Dirk was much older.

The rest of his career has just been injuries, truly retarded comments in the media, and more air time in commercials.

He might be like 90% as good as Kevin Johnson was at his peak.

Dude, you don't watch games. You know nothing about KJ.
You are an obsessive hater. One of the worse on this board. And when you first came on you weren't a limited poster. But you now consume yourself like you are helpless to control yourself. Seriously, its pass tired.

[Pointguard]

Terry shot 7% higher than Dirk (TS%) in the finals, not 60%. And it means very little considering their volume wasn't very close at 26 ppg to 18 ppg. The TS% argument matters a lot more when, you know, the players score at a similar volume? This is like comparing DeAndre Jordan to Kobe to try and minimize the importance of FG%.

I meant 100% percentage points.

The scoring was very similar in the wins. I don't have the TS% numbers.

Terry made more baskets and three pointers shooting 20 shots less in the last three games.

Terry shot 25 for 43 a 58% clip for 22 ppg
Dirk shot. 24 for 64 a 37.5% clip for 25.6 ppg

In the four finals wins:
30/54 555% FG for Terry
34/86 395% FG for Dirk

So we are comparing similar outputs at least in the games that mattered most for Dallas. Those numbers are bizarre and this is Dirk in best moment in his long career.

[SyRyanYang]

I meant 100% percentage points.

The scoring was very similar in the wins. I don't have the TS% numbers.

Terry made more baskets and three pointers shooting 20 shots less in the last three games.

Terry shot 25 for 43 a 58% clip for 22 ppg
Dirk shot. 24 for 64 a 37.5% clip for 25.6 ppg

In the four finals wins:
30/54 555% FG for Terry
34/86 395% FG for Dirk

So we are comparing similar outputs at least in the games that mattered most for Dallas. Those numbers are bizarre and this is Dirk in best moment in his long career.

Kyle Kover has a higher TS% than anybody else in the league right now.
TS%, like all stats, should be used within the context. Comparing players at different positions and plays different roles is just stupid.

Rose and Curry however are both PGs and best players on their respective team, which makes the TS comparison valid.

[tpols]

You are the desperate hater I've ever seen. You want to believe this so hard you repeat it over and over. How many times have there been a 22 year old win two playoff series on his back??? Maybe three or four times in the history of the game? And all of the other guys had a team that could break a trap. Then Rose, without another player stepping up, guarded Wade, a guy that totally devoured a dirk lead Dallas team himself in the finals, down. He had a legit claim to being tired.

Since you went there... A choke is what Dirk did. A sucky defensive team - the worst in the playoffs - shutting him down. Rose at least, had a fight in him. And Dirk was much older.

True that...

A choke is an unexpected bad performance from a great player.. one that has no logical explanation.

If a perimeter player has little offensive help.. and he's facing an extremely elite defensive team with a speciality in perimeter defense.. it's only logical to assume he won't have great offensive numbers. Both conditions are satisfied.

On the other hand, if a player is playing the 20th ranked defense.. and has a team that has dominated with their offense all year, it's only logical to assume that player would perform well offensively. If not.. there's really no explanation and it has to be considered a choke. I know some guys came back from injury.. but Stephen jackson coming back? That's gonna shut down your offense..? No. That's a choke.



even dirk in 2011 godmode shot what 41% against the heats defense? After dropping 45 on 15 shots against the Thunder in the wcf. thats what their defense was. It could limit even top 20 players all time to poor shooting compared to what they did before. So you can't call rose a choke. It makes perfect sense why it happened.

[DMAVS41]

True that...

A choke is an unexpected bad performance from a great player.. one that has no logical explanation.

If a perimeter player has little offensive help.. and he's facing an extremely elite defensive team with a speciality in perimeter defense.. it's only logical to assume he won't have great offensive numbers. Both conditions are satisfied.

On the other hand, if a player is playing the 20th ranked defense.. and has a team that has dominated with their offense all year, it's only logical to assume that player would perform well offensively. If not.. there's really no explanation and it has to be considered a choke. I know some guys came back from injury.. but Stephen jackson coming back? That's gonna shut down your offense..? No. That's a choke.



even dirk in 2011 godmode shot what 41% against the heats defense? After dropping 45 on 15 shots against the Thunder in the wcf. thats what their defense was. It could limit even top 20 players all time to poor shooting compared to what they did before. So you can't call rose a choke. It makes perfect sense why it happened.

What Rose did in the 4th qtrs of the ECF in 11 is the epitome of a choke. He was dreadful.

I'm not talking about his overall play...that was just shit.

But bricking shot after shot in crunch time and missing huge ft's....shooting like 20% for the series in the 4th....terrible turnovers.

What else do you call it? If that wasn't choking....then nothing is choking.

I won't even get into the Dirk stuff because it isn't relevant...and offers no context whatsoever.

But you can't have it both ways. You can't claim the Warriors weren't that good compared to the Heat...and then talk about how shitty Rose's help was. Doesn't even make sense. If the Heat were that much better...it just proves my point on how much help Rose had.

Rose played worse than Dirk in those 2 series...one player saw his team get laughed off the floor...the other saw his team enter each 4th qtr with a chance to win.

And you claim the Heat were far better. How did that happen then? How did the Bulls keep it so close with Rose just factually playing worse than Dirk?

LOL...you guys can't keep anything straight.

You really need to just come back to reality.

Dirk puts up 20/11/2 51% TS 2 steals 1 block 2 turnovers with 111 ortg 109 drtg

Rose puts up 23/4/7 44% ts 1 steal 0 blocks 4 turnovers with 93 ortg 107 drtg

How can you say Dirk played worse? Also, how the **** did the Bulls keep it so close against a team you claim was much better than the 07 Warriors if Rose had shit help compared to Dirk?

Also, Dirk didn't "choke"...he just played like crap. Rose did both...not only did he play worse than Dirk, but he choked. You didn't see Dirk crumbling in crunch time repeatedly in that series because the games weren't even that close.

I know you are smarter than this....just take the loss.

[DMAVS41]

Since I know you are Dmavs un-seeing eye dog... Didn't CJ Watson have a better RAPM than Rose. Great stat!!!! But I have three hilarious threads where you and Dmav's totally embarrass yourselves with this RAPM. Claiming Watson was better defensively than Rose. CJ Watson would have a starting job in the league if he could guard starters. He barely can guard 2nd unit guards. Rose was put on Wade in the finals.


This is why watching the games is so much more important than looking at stats. Korver was disappointing that year. Shot went south after the AS game. Without Rose the only one that showed much the next year or two was Taj.


Bwhahahahaaa, you are such a lost clown... you are proving my point. TS% is crap. But I know it takes a looong time for you to catch on... about four or five years?



What is this... well over two dozen times? Name me a starting perimeter player that had defensively blasted the elite at his position continuously almost unanimously. Even when he played at 70% it rarely happened. It rarely happens in the history of the game. And you want to act like his defense wasn't good. I still don't know of a point guard that remotely came close to guarding a healthy Wade like Rose did in the finals. Heck, I don't know of any player doing that.

But this requires you and Hurricane Kid having eyes worth seeing with.
You are the desperate hater I've ever seen. You want to believe this so hard you repeat it over and over. How many times have there been a 22 year old win two playoff series on his back??? Maybe three or four times in the history of the game? And all of the other guys had a team that could break a trap. Then Rose, without another player stepping up, guarded Wade, a guy that totally devoured a dirk lead Dallas team himself in the finals, down. He had a legit claim to being tired.

Since you went there... A choke is what Dirk did. A sucky defensive team - the worst in the playoffs - shutting him down. Rose at least, had a fight in him. And Dirk was much older.
Dude, you don't watch games. You know nothing about KJ.
You are an obsessive hater. One of the worse on this board. And when you first came on you weren't a limited poster. But you now consume yourself like you are helpless to control yourself. Seriously, its pass tired.

Just take the loss.

Rose hasn't done anything of note in his career...the only reason it's thought of as more than it is...is because of the year he did it.

If he was having his exact same season right now this year...he wouldn't even finish top 5 in MVP voting.

It's just another good but not great season by a NBA player....which ended with this:

23/4/7 44% TS (hahahahaahahahaah) and repeated choking in big moments late in close games.

Again...not special. Just take the loss.


I also love how Rose's best year is being compared to Dirk's worst playoff series ever...and Dirk still comes out on top. Priceless....

Dude....Rose has played 29 playoff games in his career. He's won two playoff series against mediocre teams...he played one of the worst series I can remember a star playing in the ECF. He has one really good regular season.

I mean...what do you think makes him so special off that. The list of NBA players that have done that and more is hundreds deep.

The only differentiating factor is his MVP...which he deserved, but that doesn't make him better than he is.

And I don't think you know much about Kevin Johnson...the dude was a ****ing beast in the early 90's. And he actually did for more than 1 year. The fact that you think Rose is on another level than KJ just shows how little you actually know about the game.

[Pointguard]

Rose and Curry however are both PGs and best players on their respective team, which makes the TS comparison valid.

Naaah, still isn't a top 20 criteria for PGs. If Westbrook goes up against Curry in the first round TS% will not be a factor at all.

[Dave3]

I meant 100% percentage points.

I don't know what that means, but in that same sentence you called the difference between Curry/Rose only 8%, not 80%..

The scoring was very similar in the wins. I don't have the TS% numbers.

Terry made more baskets and three pointers shooting 20 shots less in the last three games.

Terry shot 25 for 43 a 58% clip for 22 ppg
Dirk shot. 24 for 64 a 37.5% clip for 25.6 ppg

So you're taking the already small sample size of 6 games, and further cutting that in half to prove a point? That's cherry picking at it's finest dude.

In the four finals wins:
30/54 555% FG for Terry
34/86 395% FG for Dirk

So we are comparing similar outputs at least in the games that mattered most for Dallas. Those numbers are bizarre and this is Dirk in best moment in his long career.

You say similar outputs and don't give me anything more than FGM. Something tells me Dirk shot way more FTs and at a better percentage than Terry too, making their actual efficiency much closer than you're showing. And again, picking a sample size that small can prove anything. I can probably find 4 games that Draymond Green outplayed Curry, or Noah outplayed Rose (in 2011) and it would prove nothing.

[Dave3]

Naaah, still isn't a top 20 criteria for PGs. If Westbrook goes up against Curry in the first round TS% will not be a factor at all.

Yet Westbrook's crazy hot streak and huge stats haven't resulted in some type of ridiculous win streak. You don't think if he was shooting closer to 50% than 41% that his team would be doing better? A couple possessions each game matter when you lose close ones.

[HurricaneKid]

And LOL at all this "Rose is such a great defender" talk. Now you are taking credit for having Asik, Noah, and Taj protect the hoop behind him.

Since I know you are Dmavs un-seeing eye dog... Didn't CJ Watson have a better RAPM than Rose. Great stat!!!! But I have three hilarious threads where you and Dmav's totally embarrass yourselves with this RAPM. Claiming Watson was better defensively than Rose. CJ Watson would have a starting job in the league if he could guard starters. He barely can guard 2nd unit guards. Rose was put on Wade in the finals.

No. He didn't. I don't know where you got that from. Noah and Deng were very close. But never CJ.

And Rose has never made the Finals.

This is why watching the games is so much more important than looking at stats. Korver was disappointing that year. Shot went south after the AS game. Without Rose the only one that showed much the next year or two was Taj.

You are so ridiculous.

Shot went south after the all star game? HE SHOT >48% from 3 after the AS GAME.

Bwhahahahaaa, you are such a lost clown... you are proving my point. TS% is crap. But I know it takes a looong time for you to catch on... about four or five years?

And I'm out.

[HurricaneKid]

In the four finals wins:
30/54 555% FG for Terry
34/86 395% FG for Dirk

Nevermind posting here. Time to go to your remedial math class.

[funnystuff]

Sigh now even Laker fans are stanning Curry for MVP.

With Kobe on their franchise im sure the disappointment, when Curry doesnt win it, will feel right at home.

[Pointguard]

What Rose did in the 4th qtrs of the ECF in 11 is the epitome of a choke. He was dreadful.

I'm not talking about his overall play...that was just shit.

But bricking shot after shot in crunch time and missing huge ft's....shooting like 20% for the series in the 4th....terrible turnovers.

What else do you call it? If that wasn't choking....then nothing is choking.

I won't even get into the Dirk stuff because it isn't relevant...and offers no context whatsoever.

But you can't have it both ways. You can't claim the Warriors weren't that good compared to the Heat...and then talk about how shitty Rose's help was. Doesn't even make sense. If the Heat were that much better...it just proves my point on how much help Rose had.

Rose played worse than Dirk in those 2 series...one player saw his team get laughed off the floor...the other saw his team enter each 4th qtr with a chance to win.

And you claim the Heat were far better. How did that happen then? How did the Bulls keep it so close with Rose just factually playing worse than Dirk?

LOL...you guys can't keep anything straight.

You really need to just come back to reality.

Dirk puts up 20/11/2 51% TS 2 steals 1 block 2 turnovers with 111 ortg 109 drtg

Rose puts up 23/4/7 44% ts 1 steal 0 blocks 4 turnovers with 93 ortg 107 drtg

How can you say Dirk played worse? Also, how the **** did the Bulls keep it so close against a team you claim was much better than the 07 Warriors if Rose had shit help compared to Dirk?

Also, Dirk didn't "choke"...he just played like crap. Rose did both...not only did he play worse than Dirk, but he choked. You didn't see Dirk crumbling in crunch time repeatedly in that series because the games weren't even that close.

I know you are smarter than this....just take the loss.

Dirk did the worst choke ever. Dude not only played horrible against the worst defense in the playoffs, he abandoned ship. He forgot he was the leader of his team or the best player on his team. And it didn't stop there. He questioned his whole game. If it was boxing he got in the ring and questioned the ref as to why he had gloves on. He didn't even fight. He wasn't even a competitor against a team that didn't value defense. He wasn't even aggressive or a contributor in his team last stand against an 8 seed With Horrible Defense. At least fight or be aggressive. An identity Crisis is the worst thing possible.

And Dirk pulled this off with other players stepping up. In Rose case there weren't other players stepping up in his stead. In fact the second and third best players were benched in the fourth quarter twice. Which encouraged more pressure on Rose by the best perimeter defensive team in the league.