Oscar Robertson should be a lock in the top ten

[WillC]

In my opinion, Oscar Robertson is firmly in the top 10 players ever.

In the last 5-10 or so years, he's become underrated historically as fans have started to value championship success over individual brilliance. That's why Elgin Baylor and Oscar Robertson have fallen down people's all-time rankings, despite being regarded as legends in their playing days.

Oscar deserves to be on a par with Magic Johnson and Larry Bird. He's a top 6 or 7 player of all-time, in terms of individual brilliance.

It's unfair to hold the lack of championship success against him; put James Worthy and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar next to him for a decade while the Big O was in his peak and I'm sure he'd have five championships just like Magic Johnson.

[jongib369]

You say he should be a lock for top 10 but who is he ahead of? Jordan, Wilt, Russell, Bird, Magic, Duncan, Shaq, Hakeem, Kobe, Lebron, Jabar?

This is just my opinion so dont be offended or anything, but if I had to choose a player out of all of those taking team accomplishments out of the equation....Id have to say Kobe...which is tough, kobe is one of my favorite players...But like ive posted before this would be my reasoning

http://blitzsportsnetwork.com/2011/1...chool-defense/

http://blitzsportsnetwork.com/2012/0...-era-defenses/

Lebron has a better overall impact...and considering the defenses of today, kobe is putting up Jordan amount of shots without the efficiency (range was a little different but still) Totally open to being wrong though, I dont know everything and I dont want to come across as a no it all.

[Lebron23]

In my opinion, Oscar Robertson is firmly in the top 10 players ever.

In the last 5-10 or so years, he's become underrated historically as fans have started to value championship success over individual brilliance. That's why Elgin Baylor and Oscar Robertson have fallen down people's all-time rankings, despite being regarded as legends in their playing days.

Oscar deserves to be on a par with Magic Johnson and Larry Bird. He's a top 6 or 7 player of all-time, in terms of individual brilliance.

It's unfair to hold the lack of championship success against him; put James Worthy and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar next to him for a decade while the Big O was in his peak and I'm sure he'd have five championships just like Magic Johnson.

Bit we are comparing his NBA Career to other NBA players. Oscar was good, but he was not in the same level as MJ, Kareem, Russell, Magic and Bird.

[jongib369]

where do you get potentially 10 blocks per from?

Harvey pollack

Fun facts

Wilt Chamberlain also reportedly recorded a quadruple-double in Game 1 of the 1967 Eastern Division Finals against the Boston Celtics, when he had 24 points, 32 rebounds, 13 assists and 12 blocks.

Blocked shots were recorded after he retired, but Harvey Pollack asked his statisticians to count Chamberlain's blocks, and they got up to 25 one night

[get these NETS]

Bit we are comparing his NBA Career to other NBA players. Oscar was good, but he was not in the same level as MJ, Kareem, Russell, Magic and Bird.

how many other cincinnatti royals or milwaukee bucks are in the HOF?


After Kareem wasn't playing with Oscar...he dominated the league but didn't win JACKSHIT until he played with another alltime great pg

russell had ENTIRE teams in the HOF

Magic and Bird played with HOF players on each title team

[WillC]

Bit we are comparing his NBA Career to other NBA players. Oscar was good, but he was not in the same level as MJ, Kareem, Russell, Magic and Bird.

Ok, if you want to just compare team success, then go ahead. Oscar won't be top 10 but you'll need to move players like Sam Jones and John Havlicek into your top 15 or so.

Personally, I think we need a balance of team success and individual brilliance. The latter of which puts Oscar firmly in the conversation with Magic et al.

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

how many other cincinnatti royals or milwaukee bucks are in the HOF?


After Kareem wasn't playing with Oscar...he dominated the league but didn't win JACKSHIT until he played with another alltime great pg

russell had ENTIRE teams in the HOF

Magic and Bird played with HOF players on each title team

You do realize some of those guys became HOFs because of the success they had playing with Russell? It wasn't like he was LeBron going to a team that already had stars, he helped make those guys better. There's a reason he was voted MVP so much, and lots of guys would tell you he deserved it even more times than he got it.

[WillC]

You do realize some of those guys became HOFs because of the success they had playing with Russell? It wasn't like he was LeBron going to a team that already had stars, he helped make those guys better. There's a reason he was voted MVP so much, and lots of guys would tell you he deserved it even more times than he got it.

I'm the biggest Russell fan in the world (seriously, I may well be), however, to suggest that players like Cousy and Sharman weren't already stars is doing them a huge disservice. Same goes for Heinsohn.

[get these NETS]

You do realize some of those guys became HOFs because of the success they had playing with Russell? It wasn't like he was LeBron going to a team that already had stars, he helped make those guys better. There's a reason he was voted MVP so much, and lots of guys would tell you he deserved it even more times than he got it.

russell was a great player, but in the words of wilt "he only had one job to do, I had several"

I think rusell's player made the teams better and made the game easier for his teammates but the ones who made the hall were good/great players in their own right...became hall of famers because of the team success.

bottom line......Russell wasn't playing with chumps.



I get the feeling that Oscar was in fact playing with lesser players and chumps...and no good big man

[Sarcastic]

Imagine is we used team success in other sports to rank players, the way we do in basketball.

Ted Williams = unclutch scrub
Dan Marino = empty stats
Mark Messier would likely be considered better than Gretsky

[Owl]

You do realize some of those guys became HOFs because of the success they had playing with Russell? It wasn't like he was LeBron going to a team that already had stars, he helped make those guys better. There's a reason he was voted MVP so much, and lots of guys would tell you he deserved it even more times than he got it.

Perhaps some, but not many. He played with the best point guard of the 50s (and arguably the best players across the 50s though some might lean Pettit) Bob Cousy, the best shooting guard of the 50s (Sharman was a two way terror and a great shooter), an all time top 5 small forward lock in John Havlicek, the best shooting guard of the 60s (Sam Jones) though one could make a case for Hal Greer all of the above being named in the NBAs 50 best players at 50 in 1996/97.
Plus on top of that the numerous 20/10 guys including Tom Heinsohn (rated as the equal 16th greatest player of all-time by Keith Thompson's Heroes of the hardcourt), Willie Naulls and Bailey Howell, great defensive specialists like Tom "Satch" Sanders and K.C. Jones.
So tell me which guys Russell got into the Hall of Fame, I'm assuming you'd say the last two. I'd say the Celtics got them in but that's splitting hairs at this point, who else?

[steve]

Perhaps some, but not many. He played with the best point guard of the 50s (and arguably the best players across the 50s though some might lean Pettit) Bob Cousy, the best shooting guard of the 50s (Sharman was a two way terror and a great shooter), an all time top 5 small forward lock in John Havlicek, the best shooting guard of the 60s (Sam Jones) though one could make a case for Hal Greer all of the above being named in the NBAs 50 best players at 50 in 1996/97.
Plus on top of that the numerous 20/10 guys including Tom Heinsohn (rated as the equal 16th greatest player of all-time by Keith Thompson's Heroes of the hardcourt), Willie Naulls and Bailey Howell, great defensive specialists like Tom "Satch" Sanders and K.C. Jones.
So tell me which guys Russell got into the Hall of Fame, I'm assuming you'd say the last two. I'd say the Celtics got them in but that's splitting hairs at this point, who else?

KC Jones probably got into the Hall of Fame from playing on those Celtic teams. But you look at the other Hall of Famers on those teams, Cousy, Sharman, Ramsey (who I think you forgot to mention), Heinsohn, Sam Jones, and Hondo. All of them were making it into the Hall of Fame regardless of whether they played with Russell or not.

Robertson played with Twyman and Jerry Lucas (who for my money is one of the more overvalued NBA "stars" to come along) and then a few quality years from guys like Adrian Smith, Wayne Embry, and Bob Boozer. But Robertson never played on the quality of teams like the late '50s/'60s Celtics until he was past his prime.

[riseagainst]

This is just my opinion so dont be offended or anything, but if I had to choose a player out of all of those taking team accomplishments out of the equation....Id have to say Kobe...which is tough, kobe is one of my favorite players...But like ive posted before this would be my reasoning

http://blitzsportsnetwork.com/2011/1...chool-defense/

http://blitzsportsnetwork.com/2012/0...-era-defenses/

Lebron has a better overall impact...and considering the defenses of today, kobe is putting up Jordan amount of shots without the efficiency (range was a little different but still) Totally open to being wrong though, I dont know everything and I dont want to come across as a no it all.

I've read your other posts. You trying to sound all diplomatic acting like a fan of Kobe's, but you aren't. You bring up Lebron while the thread has nothing to do with him. obvious agenda.

[KG215]

Harvey pollack

Fun facts

Wilt Chamberlain also reportedly recorded a quadruple-double in Game 1 of the 1967 Eastern Division Finals against the Boston Celtics, when he had 24 points, 32 rebounds, 13 assists and 12 blocks.

Blocked shots were recorded after he retired, but Harvey Pollack asked his statisticians to count Chamberlain's blocks, and they got up to 25 one night

Huh...it's like jlauber II. If you aren't related to him, he's going to nut himself once he finds your first 20 posts.

[get these NETS]

Harvey pollack

Fun facts

Wilt Chamberlain also reportedly recorded a quadruple-double in Game 1 of the 1967 Eastern Division Finals against the Boston Celtics, when he had 24 points, 32 rebounds, 13 assists and 12 blocks.

Blocked shots were recorded after he retired, but Harvey Pollack asked his statisticians to count Chamberlain's blocks, and they got up to 25 one night

I don't doubt that he did or could get quad doubles....

Nobody is debating Wilt's dominance......and the scoring was done differently in past eras


Wilt beasting on the league shouldn't diminish what the Big O did