Oscar Robertson should be a lock in the top ten

[Ne 1]

Definitely not. IMO, Oscar is somewhat overrated due to his legend status and the mystic of the triple double season. Also with many fans being so obsessive with and overrating 'all around' numbers.

He only has 1 ring as arguably the 3rd fiddle on a team led by Kareem, only led his team to more than 50 wins once in his entire career and won only 2 playoff series his entire career as the #1 option. What other player who would be considered a top 10 lock gets this type of a pass? Seriously.

His triple double season indicates that he was a good all around player but you have to look at those numbers into some kind of context because obviously the statistics were inflated back then. It was in a setting that can never be replicated in the NBA ever again. On average teams had about 30 more possessions a game, this is a massive edge, especially for assist and scoring numbers. The league had about 40-50% more rebounds in a game. Baylor at 6'5 averaged 20 boards a game while scoring 30 points. West at 6'2 got 8 a game. Don Kojis at 6'3 got 11 a game. The list goes on. Not diminishing the players themselves in any way but when you bring up the "triple double season", you just can't ignore those. Playing in a certain era should not give an advantage that players now don't have.

[jongib369]

Nope, just came across a few articles/videos of his and find myself agreeing with most of what he says...not everything though. Its hard to argue the defense...Lebron would be a HOF in any era nonetheless. I just think his game would be negatively effected with the way the rules were back then.

Just to stress one more time, I love Lebrons game and I dont mean to hate on him

[Lebron23]

Nope, just came across a few articles/videos of his and find myself agreeing with most of what he says...not everything though. Its hard to argue the defense...Lebron would be a HOF in any era nonetheless. I just think his game would be negatively effected with the way the rules were back then.

Just to stress one more time, I love Lebrons game and I dont mean to hate on him

I think LeBron will have a much better individual stats next season. No Pressure = Circa 09 and 10 LeBron.

[jongib369]

Definitely not. IMO, Oscar is somewhat overrated due to his legend status and the mystic of the triple double season. Also with many fans being so obsessive with and overrating 'all around' numbers.

He only has 1 ring as arguably the 3rd fiddle on a team led by Kareem, only led his team to more than 50 wins once in his entire career and won only 2 playoff series his entire career as the #1 option. What other player who would be considered a top 10 lock gets this type of a pass? Seriously.

His triple double season indicates that he was a good all around player but you have to look at those numbers into some kind of context because obviously the statistics were inflated back then. It was in a setting that can never be replicated in the NBA ever again. On average teams had about 30 more possessions a game, this is a massive edge, especially for assist and scoring numbers. The league had about 40-50% more rebounds in a game. Baylor at 6'5 averaged 20 boards a game while scoring 30 points. West at 6'2 got 8 a game. Don Kojis at 6'3 got 11 a game. The list goes on. Not diminishing the players themselves in any way but when you bring up the "triple double season", you just can't ignore those. Playing in a certain era should not give an advantage that players now don't have.

Just to mention, before 1980 players were measured barefoot...so baylor is potentially 6'6/7...West IS 6'4....Chamberlain would be listed at 7'2/3...Russell 6'10/11. While players like dwight howard is actually 6'9, Kevin love 6'7 1/2, Jordan and Kobe 6'4 bare feet

[get these NETS]

Definitely not. IMO, Oscar is somewhat overrated due to his legend status and the mystic of the triple double season. Also with many fans being so obsessive with and overrating 'all around' numbers.

He only has 1 ring as arguably the 3rd fiddle on a team led by Kareem, only led his team to more than 50 wins once in his entire career and won only 2 playoff series his entire career as a #1 option. What other player who would be considered a top 10 lock gets this type of a pass? Seriously.

His triple double season indicates that he was a good all around player but you have to look at those numbers into some kind of context because obviously the statistics were inflated back then. It was in a setting that can never be replicated in the NBA ever again. On average teams had about 30 more possessions a game, this is a massive edge, especially for assist and scoring numbers. The league had about 40-50% more rebounds in a game. Baylor at 6'5 averaged 20 boards a game while scoring 30 points. West at 6'2 got 8 a game. Don Kojis at 6'3 got 11 a game. The list goes on. Not diminishing the players themselves in any way but when you bring up the "triple double season", you just can't ignore those. Playing in a certain era should not give an advantage that players now don't have.

there were 8-9 teams in the league back then

fewer playoff rounds

and he played in era when Celtics were year after year the dominant team..period

entire starting fives of those Celtics teams are in HOF



abut the triple doubles...

forget who, but someone in nba marketing or lakers marketing...came up with the term triple double to pinpoint highlight just how much of an impact that Magic Johnson was having on games without gaudy scoring numbers.

press ran with it, and since magic and bird were only guys consistently getting these trip dubs...it showcased that they were special players

so when people found out that the Big O was doing shit like that on the REG. in his day....it gave a glimpse of just how SPECIAL he was....and he was doing it with gaudy scoring...

[Owl]

He definitely wouldn't average a triple double in this era if you adjust the pace he played at back then.

I'm not sure anyone claimed he would (but he did accrue a triple double averaging across his first six seasons, which is nothing to sniff at).

But back then you were less likely to get credit on assists and players shot a way lower percentage and he was piling them up.

Here's Oscar versus his peers in the first season assist % could be calculated

Assist Pct
1. Oscar Robertson*-CIN 37.8
2. Guy Rodgers-SFW 30.5
3. Richie Guerin-STL 23.9
4. K.C. Jones*-BOS 21.9
5. Lenny Wilkens*-STL 21.6
6. Johnny Egan-NYK 21.6
7. Jerry West*-LAL 20.0
8. Larry Costello-PHI 19.3
9. Hal Greer*-PHI 17.9
10. Tom Gola*-NYK 17.3
11. Kevin Loughery-BAL 17.1
12. Al Attles-SFW 16.6
13. Paul Neumann-TOT 16.6
14. Howard Komives-NYK 16.0
15. Ray Scott-DET 15.5
16. Elgin Baylor*-LAL 15.0
17. Red Kerr-PHI 14.8
18. Bill Russell*-BOS 14.8
19. Jim King-LAL 14.2
20. John Havlicek*-BOS 13.8

I'm not sure any pg has ever been that far above his peers as a distributor (maybe Cousy before Oscar came along). Oscar's shooting percentages are far superior to league averages too whilst he was scoring 30+ppg and being easily the greatest distributor in the league.

People too often just see Oscar as Mr Triple-Double and that can then be written of as a function of pace. But he wasn't just 30.8/12.5(r)/11.4(a). He was easily the leagues best passer and pg, through his prime he was the leagues top scoring guard year after year, consistently first or second in the league in true shooting percentage.

Of the popular fringe top 10 guys there's only Shaq and Duncan who I'd consider placing above him (i.e. not Kobe, not Olajuwon, not Moses).

[jongib369]

I think LeBron will have a much better individual stats next season. No Pressure = Circa 09 and 10 LeBron.

I would agree with that...people are kidding themselves if they dont think Miami will win next year...BUT I will admit, the lakers MIGHT beat them. We'll have to wait and see


what did you think of the links that I posted??

[The Iron Fist]

there were 8-9 teams in the league back then

fewer playoff rounds

and he played in era when Celtics were year after year the dominant team..period

entire starting fives of those Celtics teams are in HOF



abut the triple doubles...

forget who, but someone in nba marketing or lakers marketing...came up with the term triple double to pinpoint highlight just how much of an impact that Magic Johnson was having on games without gaudy scoring numbers.

press ran with it, and since magic and bird were only guys consistently getting these trip dubs...it showcased that they were special players

so when people found out that the Big O was doing shit like that on the REG. in his day....it gave a glimpse of just how SPECIAL he was....and he was doing it with gaudy scoring...

And still, won it all just once. The all around player can be very overrated at times.

[Lebron23]

I would agree with that...people are kidding themselves if they dont think Miami will win next year...BUT I will admit, the lakers MIGHT beat them. We'll have to wait and see


what did you think of the links that I posted??

I'll check it out later. I have a slow internet connection right now.

[jongib369]

Just something I want to mention, why don't people bring up Chamberlain coming CLOSE to a quadruple double?

1967-68 Age-31 23.8 RPG 8.6 Assists 24.3 Points and potentially 10 blocks per..

[LikeABosh]

You say he should be a lock for top 10 but who is he ahead of? Jordan, Wilt, Russell, Bird, Magic, Duncan, Shaq, Hakeem, Kobe, Lebron, Jabar?

[get these NETS]

And still, won it all just once. The all around player can be very overrated at times.

i don't get the just once.....

he did WIN though once he got a legit big man

how's this to stick a hole in your argument? the year Oscar did win his 1 ring...I bet that there were at least 9 centers who would eventually make the hall of fame.

leads me to beleive that it was a big man's league..and when paired with a great big man he won..

without one each year he was losing regardless of how great he was individually...

[Owl]

Definitely not. IMO, Oscar is somewhat overrated due to his legend status and the mystic of the triple double season. Also with many fans being so obsessive with and overrating 'all around' numbers.

He only has 1 ring as arguably the 3rd fiddle on a team led by Kareem, only led his team to more than 50 wins once in his entire career and won only 2 playoff series his entire career as the #1 option. What other player who would be considered a top 10 lock gets this type of a pass? Seriously.

His triple double season indicates that he was a good all around player but you have to look at those numbers into some kind of context because obviously the statistics were inflated back then. It was in a setting that can never be replicated in the NBA ever again. On average teams had about 30 more possessions a game, this is a massive edge, especially for assist and scoring numbers. The league had about 40-50% more rebounds in a game. Baylor at 6'5 averaged 20 boards a game while scoring 30 points. West at 6'2 got 8 a game. Don Kojis at 6'3 got 11 a game. The list goes on. Not diminishing the players themselves in any way but when you bring up the "triple double season", you just can't ignore those. Playing in a certain era should not give an advantage that players now don't have.

Yeah assists were crazy inflated back then.

Players (excluding Oscar) getting 10 or more assists per game
1961: 0
1962: 0
1963: 1 (Guy Rodgers, Wilts pg)
1964: 0 (Oscar leads in assists per game by 4)
1965: 0 (Oscar leads in assists per game by over 4)
1966: 1 (Guy Rodgers again)
1967: 1 (Guy Rodgers)
1968: 0

Versus what Magic and Isiah were getting in the mid 80s with hyper pace, better scoring (or worse defense) and much much more generous stat-keepers.

It wasn't an easy era to get assists and if you're not yet convinced of that look at Hall of Famer, 50 at 50 member and one time MVP runner up Lenny Wilkens assist totals through Oscar's prime. He couldn't crack 6 a game. http://www.basketball-reference.com/...wilkele01.html

[get these NETS]

Just something I want to mention, why don't people bring up Chamberlain coming CLOSE to a quadruple double?

1967-68 Age-31 23.8 RPG 8.6 Assists 24.3 Points and potentially 10 blocks per..

where do you get potentially 10 blocks per from?

[LikeABosh]

That era was ridiculously fast paced. A player like Lebron would average 38/15/15 back then