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Old 03-01-2017, 03:35 PM   #31
DMAVS41
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Default Re: Boston's Ainge messep up, here's why

The issue I see with keeping Horford if the Celtics really aren't going to try and contend is that this team would be roughly as good without him. I mean...if you are trying to develop rookies...it just isn't going to matter if you win 52 games vs 46 games or something like that.

So I've been arguing..that if the Celtics really do choose not to try and contend for the next 3 years or so...they should move Horford and get something back that can have a long future on this team.

There just ins't much of a reward for keeping Horford if you aren't trying to win titles. Move him this summer while his value is still high and his contract isn't terrible.

Still can't figure out why they didn't trade Bradley...makes no sense unless they plan on keeping him. But if they plan on keeping him...that means they are going to try and contend.
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Old 03-01-2017, 03:42 PM   #32
Derka
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Default Re: Boston's Ainge messep up, here's why

I personally think AB is the best guard candidate to be moved this summer, but his injury history is going to reduce his return value somewhat.

Brad Stevens loves him some Marcus Smart no matter how poorly the kid shoots currently. He does a lot more of the non-stat sheet stuff that you love to see guys do. But on the bright side of that, AB was a crappy shooter when he started getting extended minutes in the wake of Ray leaving. You CAN learn to be a better shooter.

Edit: the value in Horford on this team is that IT gets to score nearly 30 a night. Stevens likes bigs who stretch the floor and Horford opens up a lot of lanes and shots in a Brad Stevens offense. He's a big reason why 5'7" (he's not 5'9") IT can score at the rim just by virtue of his quickness.
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Old 03-01-2017, 03:46 PM   #33
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Default Re: Boston's Ainge messep up, here's why

Quote:
Originally Posted by CelticBaller
We're sitting with the best player in the draft not named Simmons and a guaranteed top 4 pick in a loaded draft with tons of cap space this summer

He's doing quite fine


Draft loaded with what position? PGs? If Ainge will keep that pick, what he's going to do with that? He already have IT as the main guy.

Ainge's going to trade that Nets pick anyway, why not go all out and trade that pick for another "proven" star? He surely missed a big opportunity there.


Cs is in the prefect position to make that trade, I'm pretty sure what the Celtics is doing right now is what the FO envision before they decided to get AL Horford. It's in the plan to trade that Nets pick for 2nd wing option but Ainge didn't go all out.

Without the 2nd wing option in offense, IT is going to be exposed in the playoffs. It's as clear as the sky.


I'm not buying those who are saying that by the time IT and Horford is about to decline, then we already have a star on that Nets pick, I mean wtf? it's going to be a never ending cycle. And the probability that that Nets pick ito be "really" good is like 20%.

This might be IT's best season of his career. You have the opportunity now, why not grab it.
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Old 03-01-2017, 03:51 PM   #34
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Default Re: Boston's Ainge messep up, here's why

Quote:
Originally Posted by Derka
I personally think AB is the best guard candidate to be moved this summer, but his injury history is going to reduce his return value somewhat.

Brad Stevens loves him some Marcus Smart no matter how poorly the kid shoots currently. He does a lot more of the non-stat sheet stuff that you love to see guys do. But on the bright side of that, AB was a crappy shooter when he started getting extended minutes in the wake of Ray leaving. You CAN learn to be a better shooter.

Edit: the value in Horford on this team is that IT gets to score nearly 30 a night. Stevens likes bigs who stretch the floor and Horford opens up a lot of lanes and shots in a Brad Stevens offense. He's a big reason why 5'7" (he's not 5'9") IT can score at the rim just by virtue of his quickness.

We all know Horford has value on the court. The question is about if it makes sense for the Celtics to keep him long term. If they go down the path of trying to contend in 3 years from now or so...Horford won't be that great anymore and all they will have to show for him would be cap space.

My point is that I'd move both Bradley and Horford for assets that can actually play a role on this team in 3 to 5 years when they will be contending.

Again, that is if they go down the path of not trying to contend next year.

Which I think would be a mistake. I think they should make moves this summer and try to win now.
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Old 03-01-2017, 04:13 PM   #35
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Default Re: Boston's Ainge messep up, here's why

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMAVS41
We all know Horford has value on the court. The question is about if it makes sense for the Celtics to keep him long term. If they go down the path of trying to contend in 3 years from now or so...Horford won't be that great anymore and all they will have to show for him would be cap space.

My point is that I'd move both Bradley and Horford for assets that can actually play a role on this team in 3 to 5 years when they will be contending.

Again, that is if they go down the path of not trying to contend next year.

Which I think would be a mistake. I think they should make moves this summer and try to win now.
The Horford/Durant/George trio was their best shot to win right now and they whiffed on that. So now what?

I'll be right up front with my honest feelings: no Big 3 that features IT is going to win anything. I love the guy but the truth is that he's a massive defensive liability and any reasonably competent defender at his position can take him right out of the game. On any title team, he's could be an annual Sixth Man of the Year candidate and I believe that's his honest to God ceiling.

But...on this present Celtics team, he's your #1 scorer and a vital part of what you're doing on offense. So if we're dumping Horford and Bradley for pieces to win RIGHT NOW...who takes a good-but-aging Horford, a frequently-injured Bradley and a pair of Top 5 draft picks (plus a host of others) and sends us back the pieces we'd need to overcome Toronto AND Cleveland? What pieces would those even be?

Frankly, I'm not seeing how any combination of Thomas, Butler, Cousins, Hayward or George does this for us right now.
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Old 03-01-2017, 04:20 PM   #36
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Default Re: Boston's Ainge messep up, here's why

Seems pretty logical to me what they're doing.

If they hit on these picks, in 3-4 years time LeBron will be 35/36. This is the sweet spot for them to become what the Cavs and before them the Heat have been in the East - the perennial favorite to come out of the East.

Who knows if the Warriors will be in tact by then.

Obviously if they miss on this upcoming draft, it's all for not. They need to obtain an all-star from this - which I think Ball and Fultz should be. If they fall to the #3 pick, it's a whole lot riskier.
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Old 03-01-2017, 04:38 PM   #37
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Default Re: Boston's Ainge messep up, here's why

Quote:
Originally Posted by dbugz
Draft loaded with what position? PGs? If Ainge will keep that pick, what he's going to do with that? He already have IT as the main guy.

Ainge's going to trade that Nets pick anyway, why not go all out and trade that pick for another "proven" star? He surely missed a big opportunity there.


Cs is in the prefect position to make that trade, I'm pretty sure what the Celtics is doing right now is what the FO envision before they decided to get AL Horford. It's in the plan to trade that Nets pick for 2nd wing option but Ainge didn't go all out.

Without the 2nd wing option in offense, IT is going to be exposed in the playoffs. It's as clear as the sky.


I'm not buying those who are saying that by the time IT and Horford is about to decline, then we already have a star on that Nets pick, I mean wtf? it's going to be a never ending cycle. And the probability that that Nets pick ito be "really" good is like 20%.

This might be IT's best season of his career. You have the opportunity now, why not grab it.
Because a team of IT/George or butler will not be enough to beat the Cavs and even the Warriors.

And if you have been keeping any track of the draft, there's 3 forwards in the the top 5

R.E.L.A.X. Celtics fans seem to forget how ****ed up is jeopardizing future for the present. Remember Billups and Johnson?
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Old 03-01-2017, 06:37 PM   #38
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Default Re: Boston's Ainge messep up, here's why

Quote:
Originally Posted by dbugz
Draft loaded with what position? PGs? If Ainge will keep that pick, what he's going to do with that? He already have IT as the main guy.

Ainge's going to trade that Nets pick anyway, why not go all out and trade that pick for another "proven" star? He surely missed a big opportunity there.


Cs is in the prefect position to make that trade, I'm pretty sure what the Celtics is doing right now is what the FO envision before they decided to get AL Horford. It's in the plan to trade that Nets pick for 2nd wing option but Ainge didn't go all out.

Without the 2nd wing option in offense, IT is going to be exposed in the playoffs. It's as clear as the sky.


I'm not buying those who are saying that by the time IT and Horford is about to decline, then we already have a star on that Nets pick, I mean wtf? it's going to be a never ending cycle. And the probability that that Nets pick ito be "really" good is like 20%.

This might be IT's best season of his career. You have the opportunity now, why not grab it.

Exactly what I am saying.
IT has been great but I am telling you right now, he will struggle against top teams, JUST LIKE WHAT HE HAPPENING RIGHT NOW. esp bec top teams know how to defend the very offensively limited team like the Celtics.
Butler is not only a good offensive player, he is also a very good defensive player, it's not like his counterpart will score heavily against him.
Some are being presumptive that the top pick would surely be a superstar, there is NO GUARANTEE TO THAT. AGain by the time, IF he truly blossoms, IT and Horford would be useless, yes another cycle.
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Old 03-01-2017, 07:21 PM   #39
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Default Re: Boston's Ainge messep up, here's why

They can still make a trade in the off season. No way were they giving up what Chicago and Indiana were asking for.
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Old 03-01-2017, 08:49 PM   #40
CelticBaller
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Default Re: Boston's Ainge messep up, here's why

This would be a fun thread to bump few years from now

Ainge is keeping the picks, when was the last time he traded a top 5 for a superstar? It was literally when he was pretty close to forming the big 3 in a east where the aging pistons and the one man show lebron were the only contenders.

He knows we have a little chance with the Cavs and Warriors and in this draft he's specially keeping the picks

Trust the process you impatient ****s
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