Why is Oscar Robertson not a lock for top 10?????

[INDI]

I have been guilty of leaving Oscar out of the top 10 for much of my "top ten" lists, but truthfully it should be impossible to do so. I know stats are not the full story but if stats were the only thing we judged careers upon, then Oscar would be the unanimous GOAT.

for example ONLY, I did a comparison to Lebron's career (since many are starting to consider him top ten alltime).



Oscar (career stats)

25.7 ppg, 9.5 apg, 7.5 rpg, .485 fg%, .838 ft%

Lebron

27.6 ppg, 6.9 apg, 7.3 rpg, .490 fg%, .747 ft%

egde goes to Oscar


Oscar (best season)

30.8 ppg, 11.4 apg, 12.1 rpg

Lebron

29.7 ppg, 8.6 apg, 7.3 rpg

edge goes to Oscar (probably the best statistical season of all-time)


Oscar (other stats)

1 championship, 1 mvp, 9 all nba firsts, 2 all nba second team, 3 all star mvp, R.O.Y,

6 seasons of 30+ ppg, 8 seasons of 10+ assts, 4 seasons of 10+ rpg

Lebron

1 championship, 4 mvp, 7 all nba first, 2 all nba second (i think), 2 all star mvp, R.O.Y

2 seasons of 30+ppg, 0 seasons of 10+ assts, 0 seasons of 10+ rpg

edge goes to Oscar.




The only knocks that you will ever hear about Oscar is that he only has 1 mvp and 1 championship. This is easily understandable playing in a era that boasted Russell, Wilt, and Jabbar, which happens to be the 3 greatest big men of alltime. Celtics with all of those hall of famers would be impossible for anybody to win consistently against.

the other knock is saying he couldnt do that in this ERA. He can't help when he was born and if it was easy enough to average a triple double then why has no one else from that era done it?????? (and Oscar came close to doing it 5 times!!!!).



I believe that overall Oscar should be a lock for the top 10, as much as I love hakeem there is no way he should be above the big O.

[Scholar]

The only knocks that you will ever hear about Oscar is that he only has 1 mvp and 1 championship. This is easily understandable playing in a era that boasted Russell, KAJ, and Jabbar, which happens to be the 3 greatest big men of alltime. Celtics with all of those hall of famers would be impossible for anybody to win consistently against.

the other knock is saying he couldnt do that in this ERA. He can't help when he was born and if it was easy enough to average a triple double then why has no one else from that era done it?????? (and Oscar came close to doing it 5 times!!!!).



I believe that overall Oscar should be a lock for the top 10, as much as I love hakeem there is no way he should be above the big O.

What?


Anyway, it's hard to argue against your point. All I can say is that the majority of us never got to watch Oscar play live. It's different seeing someone live than seeing highlights & hearing stories. That's why there are youngsters saying, "Kobe > MJ," all because they never watched MJ play live.

[teddytwelvetoes]

The only knocks that you will ever hear about Oscar is that he only has 1 mvp and 1 championship. This is easily understandable playing in a era that boasted Russell, KAJ, and Jabbar, which happens to be the 3 greatest big men of alltime. Celtics with all of those hall of famers would be impossible for anybody to win consistently against.

If those Celtics teams had Wilt instead of Russell they wouldn't have won 11 chips in 13 years

That season where Oscar averaged a triple double Wilt averaged 50pts 25rbs in 48.5 minutes per game. Russ won MVP

[INDI]

What?


Anyway, it's hard to argue against your point. All I can say is that the majority of us never got to watch Oscar play live. It's different seeing someone live than seeing highlights & hearing stories. That's why there are youngsters saying, "Kobe > MJ," all because they never watched MJ play live.

lol i meant Wilt

[keep-itreal]

because he played in a water down era, played against a bunch of stiff unathletic white man.

[aj1987]

Oscar (best season)

30.8 ppg, 11.4 apg, 12.1 rpg

edge goes to Oscar (probably the best statistical season of all-time)

You're forgetting a certain player who goes by the name Wilt Chamberlain.

50.4 PPG, 25.7 RPG, 2.4 APG
24.3 PPG, 23.8 RPG, 8.6 APG
24.1 PPG, 24.2 RPG, 7.8 APG (@ 68.3% )
I would take those three seasons over the one that you mentioned.
I remember reading somewhere that if blocks were recorded back then, Wilt would've averaged around 6-9 BPG over his career.

[WayOfWade]

I'll try to list ten players I without a doubt think are greater than he is.

MJ, Magic, Bird, Kareem, Wilt, Russel, Hameem, Shaq, Kobe... and that's it. I'd say he's in it with his main competition being Tim Duncan.

[teddytwelvetoes]

You're forgetting a certain player who goes by the name Wilt Chamberlain.

50.4 PPG, 25.7 RPG, 2.4 APG
24.3 PPG, 23.8 RPG, 8.6 APG
24.1 PPG, 24.2 RPG, 7.8 APG (@ 68.3% )
I would take those three seasons over the one that you mentioned.
I remember reading somewhere that if blocks were recorded back then, Wilt would've averaged around 6-9 BPG over his career.

Like I said, Russ won MVP the year Wilt put up 50/25

Russ was casually mentioned in broadcasts/box scores getting 8-14 blocks in playoff games. Blocks that were directed towards teammates for instant fast-breaks, not swatted into the stands giving the other team the ball back

[Psycho]

I'll try to list ten players I without a doubt think are greater than he is.

MJ, Magic, Bird, Kareem, Wilt, Russel, Hameem, Shaq, Kobe... and that's it. I'd say he's in it with his main competition being Tim Duncan.

Duncan is definitively better than Hakeem.

[WayOfWade]

Duncan is definitively better than Hakeem.

I can understand that. It's tough to rank current players because their days aren't over yet.

[aj1987]

Like I said, Russ won MVP the year Wilt put up 50/25

Russ was casually mentioned in broadcasts/box scores getting 8-14 blocks in playoff games. Blocks that were directed towards teammates for instant fast-breaks, not swatted into the stands giving the other team the ball back

I'll leave this to that Wilt homer dude. jlauber, right?

[2010splash]

Oscar's stats are grossly inflated from playing in a watered down, weak ass era with no competition and inferior athletes. LeBron's 27/8/7 on 57% in the modern era is much better than anything Oscar did back then and would be probably 40/15/12 on 65% back in that joker's league. Not to mention Oscar is a terrible defensive player compared to LeBron.

Jordan, LeBron, Magic, Wilt, Kareem, Russell, Duncan, Bird, Hakeem, Kobe.

There's 10 players Oscar can't beat out.

[INDI]

I'll try to list ten players I without a doubt think are greater than he is.

MJ, Magic, Bird, Kareem, Wilt, Russel, Hameem, Shaq, Kobe... and that's it. I'd say he's in it with his main competition being Tim Duncan.

The same knock that applies to big O (he was more physically gifted than his competition), should apply to Shaq also. Everyone knows that the main reason for Shaqs dominance was strength.

even when you take their situations Into account (oscar era, shaq weight advantage), Oscar was still mlre dominant. Shaq has never averaged 30 ppg (one season of 29.7). Oscar did it 6 times and had 5 deasons close to triple doubles.

give me Oscar over Shaq

[LAZERUSS]

If those Celtics teams had Wilt instead of Russell they wouldn't have won 11 chips in 13 years

That season where Oscar averaged a triple double Wilt averaged 50pts 25rbs in 48.5 minutes per game. Russ won MVP

Not sure what your point is. In any case, I won't bother arguing your take on Russell-Wilt. This is about Oscar.

So, are you basically claiming that what the Big O accomplished should just be dismissed?

Most everyone knows that Oscar had that "triple double" season (and BTW, he averaged 30 ppg in it), but as was mentioned, he averaged a triple double over the course of his first five seasons, and all on about 30 ppg and on efficiencies that were well ahead of the league average.

Since you seem to be implying that it was so easy, where are all the other triple-double seasons of that era? And once again, he was consistently handing out 10-11 apg over the course of much of that decade, all while scoring around 30 ppg...when there were only a couple of other seasons in which a player averaged over 10 apg (and on much lower scoring.)

And I won't get into the debate about where Oscar should rank, either. We are now reaching the point where there are about 12-13 players who have legitimate arguments as top-10 players of all-time. And even if he is not a top-10 player, he was clearly one of the greatest ever.

[BoutPractice]

You're just comparing raw stats with no context. Adjusted for pace, Oscar's stats are still very impressive, but inferior than LeBron's.

But to answer your question, it's because, as unbelievably great that Oscar was, you can list ten players who are/were even better: Jordan, Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Duncan, Magic, Bird, Hakeem, Kobe. You can also make a case for Moses and LeBron.