Engines and Role Players

[ralph_i_el]

I'd just like to share my way of thinking about players.

Guys fall into two categories, Engines and Role Players.

an "engine" is a player that you would build a team around. They create opportunities and impose their own style. Every team needs an engine or they aren't going anywhere. Traditionally most superstars and 6th men would be classified as "engines". These players more often than not play the 1-3 positions. More often than not the numbers of the other players on the team are heavily dependent on the play of "engines"

examples: Lebron, Cp3, Rondo, Kobe, Wall, Blake Griffin, Dirk, Marc Gasol, Tim Duncan (ect ect....)
less successful examples: Jordan crawford, tyreke evans

"Role players" get a bad reputation around here. Teams don't win without players who fill the necessary roles. You need rim D, wing D, bigs who can move the ball, floor spacers, rebounders, FINISHERS, ect.... Your "engine" players aren't going to look very good if they aren't supported by excellent role players. Some role players are MORE valuable than "engines" because they are so good at filling their roles that they have a huge influence on wins and losses. This more often than not stems from their ability to fill multiple niches at a high level.

examples: Dwight Howard, Kevin Love, Kyle Korver, J Noah, Hibbert, Klay Thompson, Wesley Matthews, Ibaka




I have noticed that on ISH and among basketball fans in general, "engines" are overrated and role players and chronically underrated. One can succeed without the other. If you look at most of the great teams in history you see tons of engine/role player superstar tandems that made each other look good. Some "engine" type players don't pan out because they can't win as the man, and can't fall back into a role player role. These are the guys that end up as 6th men. Some guys CAN fall back into a role player role and remain successful (think Chris Bosh or Lance Stephenson)


Thoughts? Who are the engines on your favorite team? Which players fill the most roles?


Kevin Durant is an interesting case that straddles the line between role player and engine. His massive talent is now overcoming his natural inclination to play super-unselfish ball.

[nathanjizzle]

you got it all wrong man.

[Darius]

Interesting way of thinking.

What is your list of high-level "role-players"?

I'm assuming - by your way of thinking - that a high-level engine + high-level role player is the best foundational pairing?

I.E. CP3 + Kevin Love would be better than CP3 + Blake Griffin because CP3 + Griffin are both engines and won't maximize each other's talent?

[ralph_i_el]

Interesting way of thinking.

What is your list of high-level "role-players"?

I'm assuming - by your way of thinking - that a high-level engine + high-level role player is the best foundational pairing?

I.E. CP3 + Kevin Love would be better than CP3 + Blake Griffin because CP3 + Griffin are both engines and won't maximize each other's talent?

exactly! and I think we saw that with CP3 out. Bosh sliding into his roles is also an underrated aspect of Miami's success.

High level role players besides the ones I listed?

Anthony Davis (engine potential, he's still young), Brad Beal, JJ Redick, Nikola Pekovic, Paul millsap, Ryan Anderson, Kenneth Faried, Tyson Chandler, Chandler Parsons, Gordon Hayward (engine potential), Anderson Varejao, Taj Gibson, CURRENT VC (super underrated atm), Josh Smith, Avery Bradley will belong on this list in the future.

[Akrazotile]

examples: Lebron, Cp3, Rondo, Kobe, Wall, Blake Griffin, Dirk, Marc Gasol, Tim Duncan (ect ect....)

[ralph_i_el]

use your words dude

[el gringos]

Good thread. I think role player is something a lot of people don't understand. All the way from ish to nba players and coaches.

[SCdac]

Disagree wholeheartedly with Marc Gasol being an "engine". Currently he's 4th in scoring on his team (at 13 ppg), 2nd in rebounding to Randolph, and 2nd in assists to Conley...

Throwing him in there with Lebron, Paul, etc, confuses your thread and premise, imo.

Having said that, I generally agree with these labels, but it gets complicated.

For instance, I'd argue current Tim Duncan could be called both an engine and a role player. Because of his leadership (team captain), experience, and ability to create out of the post.

Perfect example of a role player, when Rose is not injured, is Noah. Does what he needs to do, rebounds and blocks shots, but he's not the engine per se and not going to carry a team on his own.

[ralph_i_el]

Disagree wholeheartedly with Marc Gasol being an "engine". Currently he's 4th in scoring on his team (at 13 ppg), 2nd in rebounding to Randolph, and 2nd in assists to Conley...

Throwing him in there with Lebron, Paul, etc, confuses your thread and premise, imo.

Having said that, I generally agree with these labels, but it gets complicated.

For instance, I'd argue current Tim Duncan could be called both an engine and a role player. Because of his leadership (team captain), experience, and ability to create out of the post.

Perfect example of a role player, when Rose is not injured, is Noah. Does what he needs to do, rebounds and blocks shots, but he's not the engine per se and not going to carry a team on his own.

Marc Gasol is getting the most elbow touches of anyone in the league by a good margin. He's top 5 in touches close to the basket. I consider him an engine because he has the ball more than just about any big in the league.

Yeah there are definitely gray areas and lots of guys you could argue either way

[ralph_i_el]

I was about to do an entire new thread on this....but then I got high and decided to bump this old one.


Who are the best "Role Players" in the league right now? And just because a player is all star level, doesn't mean they aren't a role player. Remove the negative connotation attached to the words "role player"

I'm thinking (outside of guys I mentioned last year)

Horford, Whiteside, Kawhi, George Hill....

[chips93]

draymond is the prototypical role player of todays game. hes versatile both offensively and defensively, but he cant score on you one-on-one, and you cant just hand him the ball to create offense, but he'll keep the ball moving on offense and make good decisions.

when anderson varejao was healthy he was the same type of player, just less versatile defensively, and less range on his jumper.

[Kuantrz]

I just love watching the sharpshooters. There role is not only to knock down open shots but to move constantly and making the defence adjust opening up opportuneitys for others to score without touching the ball.

Think Kyle Korver, J.j. Reddick

[ralph_i_el]

draymond is the prototypical role player of todays game. hes versatile both offensively and defensively, but he cant score on you one-on-one, and you cant just hand him the ball to create offense, but he'll keep the ball moving on offense and make good decisions.

when anderson varejao was healthy he was the same type of player, just less versatile defensively, and less range on his jumper.

two more good examples

[imdaman99]

Anyone who can 3 and D is the perfect role player nowadays. I don't consider Kawhi a role player, he is more than that.

[Marchesk]

Wilt was a 500 hp supercharged 32 valve V8 engine. Could do 0-100 in 48 minutes.