LeBron James has the most points scored and assisted per game

[3ball]

For the series, the 3 guys who played the 3rd, 4th, and 5th highest minutes managed to score a combined 25.5 points on sub 40% TS. 29% FG% and 28% 3pt%.

Lebron's teammates ALWAYS underperform in the Finals and against the best teams (see 2009 ECF, 2010 ECSF, 2014 Finals, 2015 Finals).

And we know why - it's statistical fact that he turns teammates into play-finishers (he lowers their APG while increasing their assisted rate), and their simple play-finishing roles are no longer successful against the best teams.. Their diminished playmaking capacity makes it more difficult for them to perform well against the best teams in the playoffs.

And it's all Lebron's fault - HIS style of play turns teammates into play-finishers, and obviously, it's highly suboptimal.

LeBron was holding the ball for 22 seconds every possession?

LeBron was purposefully slowing down the pace.

Lebron holding the ball isn't the only way to slow down the pace - that's ridiculous... The team can move the ball and use the shot clock without Lebron just holding it, LIKE OTHER TEAMS DO.

Lebron's time of possession in the Finals was a ridiculous 12 minutes per game - this was 50% higher than the RS leader John Wall's 8.1 minutes.. No team can win a Finals with 1 guy holding the ball that long.

MJ took 199 shots in '93 and LeBron took 196. He did have Pippen, who was a better playmaker, and didn't average too many assists.

Jordan's 41 ppg on 51% couldn't realistically be improved, whereas Lebron's 35 ppg on 39% with zero defense had MUCH room for improvement.. The Cavs win easily if Lebron shot 50% AND played good defense, instead of missing literally 80% of his jumpers and letting a role player be > Curry.

Ditto for Lebron's 22 ppg on 35% in 2007 Finals.. Game 1 was an 8-point game in 4th quarter despite 5-15 and 10 points from Lebron... Games 3 and 4 were one-possession nail-biters despite 24 pts on 39% shooting, and 25 points on 33% shooting from Lebron.

So once again - give Lebron 50% shooting (just like Kobe, Melo and Bonzi shot against that same Spurs team), plus good defense so a role player doesn't become > Duncan, and the Cavs EASILY WIN.

So don't make excuses for Lebron's shitty play.

[3ball]

Without James on the floor, [COLOR="Blue"]Cleveland’s field goal percentage dropped for 40% to 17%[/COLOR], and it’s[COLOR="Red"] offensive efficiency fell from 97.3 to 50.9.[/COLOR]

Who cares - that was only 24 minutes total in the entire series.. Lebron played 274 of 298 minutes.

Furthermore, most players perform worse when the star player leaves the floor, especially if they're rusty because the star player wasn't letting them handle the ball at all.. And Lebron holds the ball for much longer than anyone BY FAR.

In the 2015 Finals, his time of possession was a ridiculous 12 minutes per game, which was 50% higher than the RS leader John Wall's 8.1 minutes.. Let that sink in..

But ultimately, Lebron's supporting cast shot better than he did in the 2015 Finals - they had eFG of 43.2%, compared to Lebron's 43.1%.. So Lebron shouldn't have shot so much if he was going to shoot that BADLY.. And obviously, he shouldn't have held the ball for so long - no team can win with 1 guy holding the ball for 12 minutes.

[Im Still Ballin]

You are wrong because when he went on the bench the FG% went down to 17% which tells us that Lebron ball willed the team to 2 wins despite the insurmountable odds

[3ball]

You are wrong because when he went on the bench the FG% went down to 17% which tells us that Lebron ball willed the team to 2 wins despite the insurmountable odds

That isn't a valid point - Lebron turns teammates into play-finishers, so they can't become playmakers instantaneously when he goes to the bench.

Furthermore, it's common for players to perform worse when the star player leaves the floor - there's no need to give Lebron props for things all other star players do - especially if the supporting cast is rusty because the star player wasn't letting them handle the ball.. And Lebron holds the ball for much longer than anyone BY FAR.

In the 2015 Finals, his time of possession was a ridiculous 12 minutes per game, which was 50% higher than the RS leader John Wall's 8.1 minutes.. Let that sink in..

But ultimately, Lebron's supporting cast shot better than he did in the 2015 Finals - they had eFG of 43.2%, compared to Lebron's 43.1%.. So Lebron shouldn't have shot so much if he was going to shoot that BADLY.. And obviously, he shouldn't have held the ball for so long - no team can win with 1 guy holding the ball for 12 minutes.
.

[3ball]

Lebron ball (is highly inefficient)

The 2015 playoffs were Lebron's first high volume playoffs and we saw what happened when the high volume (27 fga) forced him to stray from his normal diet of 3-pointers and layups - he shot an abysmal 41%.. Unfortunately, Lebron has poor efficiency at the additional isolations and pullup jumpshots required of high volume shooting - accordingly, he can't shoot well at high volume or require a double-team to PREVENT high volume.

In the Finals, he only shot 39% - it benefited the Warriors every time he shot, so they encouraged his high volume by not double-teaming.. They only double-teamed him 18 times in the entire Finals.. Compare that to MJ, where his efficient high volume caused teams to double-team him 10+ times in a single quarter, as a standard - teams couldn't afford high volume from Jordan, since it was accompanied by high efficiency too..

But the REAL holy grail of basketball skill is far greater than controlling pace with high volume like Lebron, or adding good efficiency to the high volume like MJ.. The real holy grail is good efficiency at high volume [COLOR="Navy"]while winning championships[/COLOR] because the efficient high volume must be achieved within the team concept.. Only 2 players have reached this holy grail of basketball skill (25+ shot attempts on 45% during a championship playoff run) - MJ did it 4 times (1992, 1993, 1997, and 1998) and Hakeem once (1995).. Ultimately, their elite midrange efficiency allowed them to shoot well at high volume.

Keep in mind that all fans wish their favorite player could shoot more at better efficiency.. Isn't that always the goal - to DO MORE?... Well that's what MJ did - he DID MORE (higher volume) at the better efficiency.

If Kobe or Lebron could shoot a higher volume at better efficiency - they would... But they can't - only Jordan is capable of having BETTER efficiency at much higher volume:


Per 100 Possessions in Playoffs:

JORDAN:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 43.3 pts.. 2.2 oreb.. 6.1 dreb.. 7.4 ast.. 4.0 tov.. 2.7 stl.. 1.1 blk.. [COLOR="DarkRed"]48.7 fg.. 56.8 ts.. 118 ORtg[/COLOR].. 32.5 fga
LEBRON:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 36.5 pts.. 2.0 oreb.. 9.3 dreb.. 8.6 ast.. 4.5 tov.. 2.2 stl.. 1.2 blk.. 47.3 fg.. 56.5 ts.. 114 ORtg.. 26.8 fga
DURANT:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 35.8 pts.. 1.2 oreb.. 9.1 dreb.. 4.8 ast.. 4.1 tov.. 1.4 stl.. 1.5 blk.. 46.2 fg.. 58.3 ts.. 114 ORtg.. 25.8 fga
KOBE:[COLOR="White"].....[/COLOR] 34.7 pts.. 1.4 oreb.. 5.5 dreb.. 6.4 ast.. 4.0 tov.. 1.9 stl.. 0.9 blk.. 44.8 fg.. 54.1 ts.. 110 ORtg.. 27.7 ga
WADE:[COLOR="White"]....[/COLOR] 32.2 pts.. 2.0 oreb.. 5.4 dreb.. 7.1 ast.. 4.8 tov.. 2.3 stl.. 1.4 blk.. 47.8 fg.. 55.4 ts.. 108 ORtg.. 24.8 fga

[Quickening]

You are wrong because when he went on the bench the FG% went down to 17% which tells us that Lebron ball willed the team to 2 wins despite the insurmountable odds

this

[sdot_thadon]

You are wrong because when he went on the bench the FG% went down to 17% which tells us that Lebron ball willed the team to 2 wins despite the insurmountable odds

This.

[3ball]

This.

That isn't a valid point - Lebron turns teammates into play-finishers, so they can't become playmakers instantaneously when he goes to the bench.

Furthermore, it's common for players to perform worse when the star player leaves the floor - there's no need to give Lebron props for things all other star players do - especially if the supporting cast is rusty because the star player wasn't letting them handle the ball.. And Lebron holds the ball for much longer than anyone BY FAR.

In the 2015 Finals, his time of possession was a ridiculous 12 minutes per game, which was 50% higher than the RS leader John Wall's 8.1 minutes.. Let that sink in..

But ultimately, Lebron's supporting cast shot better than he did in the 2015 Finals - they had eFG of 43.2%, compared to Lebron's 43.1%.. So Lebron shouldn't have shot so much if he was going to shoot that BADLY.. And obviously, he shouldn't have held the ball for so long - no team can win with 1 guy holding the ball for 12 minutes.

[3ball]

This.

Furthermore, it wasn't insurmountable odds, because Lebron's 35.8 ppg on 39% had MUCH room for improvement.. The Cavs win easily if we give Lebron 50% shooting AND good defense so he doesn't let a role player be > Curry.

Ditto for Lebron's 22 ppg on 35% in 2007 Finals.. Game 1 was an 8-point game in 4th quarter despite 5-15 and 10 points from Lebron... Games 3 and 4 were one-possession nail-biters despite 24 pts on 39% shooting, and 25 points on 33% shooting from Lebron.

So once again - give Lebron 50% shooting (just like Kobe, Melo and Bonzi shot against that same Spurs team), plus good defense so a role player doesn't become > Duncan, and the Cavs EASILY WIN.

So don't make excuses for Lebron's shitty play.
.

[3ball]

Furthermore, it wasn't insurmountable odds, because Lebron's 35.8 ppg on 39% had MUCH room for improvement.. The Cavs win easily if we give Lebron 50% shooting AND good defense so he doesn't let a role player be > Curry.

Ditto for Lebron's 22 ppg on 35% in 2007 Finals.. Game 1 was an 8-point game in 4th quarter despite 5-15 and 10 points from Lebron... Games 3 and 4 were one-possession nail-biters despite 24 pts on 39% shooting, and 25 points on 33% shooting from Lebron.

So once again - give Lebron 50% shooting (just like Kobe, Melo and Bonzi shot against that same Spurs team), plus good defense so a role player doesn't become > Duncan, and the Cavs EASILY WIN.

So don't make excuses for Lebron's shitty play.

[aj1987]

Lebron's teammates ALWAYS underperform in the Finals and against the best teams (see 2009 ECF, 2010 ECSF, 2014 Finals, 2015 Finals).

And we know why - it's statistical fact that he turns teammates into play-finishers (he lowers their APG while increasing their assisted rate), and their simple play-finishing roles are no longer successful against the best teams.. Their diminished playmaking capacity makes it more difficult for them to perform well against the best teams in the playoffs.

And it's all Lebron's fault - HIS style of play turns teammates into play-finishers, and obviously, it's highly suboptimal.



Lebron holding the ball isn't the only way to slow down the pace - that's ridiculous... The team can move the ball and use the shot clock without Lebron just holding it, LIKE OTHER TEAMS DO.

Lebron's time of possession in the Finals was a ridiculous 12 minutes per game - this was 50% higher than the RS leader John Wall's 8.1 minutes.. No team can win a Finals with 1 guy holding the ball that long.

LeBron was purposefully slowing down the pace. You don't win against the Warriors (with a garbage ass team no less) playing run and gun ball. They're gonna out shoot you and destroy you. The Cavs would've lost in 4 straight blowouts if they played uptempo basketball.

He couldn't hand over the playmaking duties to others nor was he able to let others make decisions, because they're low IQ players. Shump and JR were terrible and can't create for others. Delly had a hard time bringing the ball up court. Actually, Shump is a below average playmaker, but the other two are worse than garbage.

The game in which Mozgov put up 28 points, the Cavs lost by 21 points. LeBron struggled shooting the ball, but he did have 20/12/8. 12 rebounds and 8 assists (oh wait, rebounds and assists only matter when it's Bird). Delly went 3-14, JR 2-12, Shump 2-9, JJ 0-3, etc.. A combined 18% FG%. Literally no one could hit a shot. To top it off, the Warriors went small and Moz couldn't guard anyone on the court. Bogut was benched and Green was playing at the C.

You're blaming LeBron for Moz not getting more involved in game 5 after the 28 point game, when in fact, the COACH played him 9 minutes. He played over 30 minutes in game 6 and LeBron got him involved. Dude put up 17/12/4.

For the series, the 3 guys who played the 3rd, 4th, and 5th highest minutes managed to score a combined 25.5 points on sub 40% TS. 29% FG% and 28% 3pt%.

Jordan's 41 ppg on 51% couldn't realistically be improved, whereas Lebron's 35.8 ppg on 39% had MUCH room for improvement.. Give Lebron 50% shooting and good defense so he doesn't let a role player be > Curry, and the Cavs easily win.

Ditto for Lebron's 22 ppg on 35% in 2007 Finals.. Game 1 was an 8-point game in 4th quarter despite 5-15 and 10 points from Lebron... Games 3 and 4 were one-possession nail-biters despite 24 pts on 39% shooting, and 25 points on 33% shooting from Lebron.

So once again - give Lebron 50% shooting (just like Kobe, Melo and Bonzi shot against that same Spurs team), plus good defense so a role player doesn't become > Duncan, and the Cavs EASILY WIN.

So don't make excuses for Lebron's shitty play.

That's not what we were talking about, you ignorant shit.

If Jordan took the same amount of shots LeBron did, he'd be leading him easily.

MJ took 199 shots in '93 and LeBron took 196. He did have Pippen, who was a better playmaker, and didn't average too many assists.

That isn't a valid point - Lebron turns teammates into play-finishers, so they can't become playmakers instantaneously when he goes to the bench.

You do know that JR, Shump, etc. all have been in the league for a ton of years and started playing with LeBron just last season, right? How does one season of playing with LeBron make them forget what they learned for years?

Just stop talking out of your ass, you uneducated shit.

[sdot_thadon]

Magic Johnson turned guys into play finishers too nimrod, it's what elite playmaker do. Maybe you should have spent the last 5 years watching real basketball instead of 20 year old reel to reels and you'd have the slightest ****ing clue of what happened in the finals.

It's likely the greatest carry job of this era, perhaps more. On top of that it just sweetens over time. The team he drug the Cavs to 2 wins against undermanned is on pace to shatter Mjs bulls win record. Even if they don't it's pretty clear exactly what gs is, and what lebron nearly did. Nice to see you butt hurt though, I'm sure they got pills for that skool.

[3ball]

LeBron was purposefully slowing down the pace. You don't win against the Warriors (with a garbage ass team no less) playing run and gun ball. They're gonna out shoot you and destroy you. The Cavs would've lost in 4 straight blowouts if they played uptempo basketball.

He couldn't hand over the playmaking duties to others nor was he able to let others make decisions, because they're low IQ players. Shump and JR were terrible and can't create for others. Delly had a hard time bringing the ball up court. Actually, Shump is a below average playmaker, but the other two are worse than garbage.

Don't be ridiculous - Shumpert, Delly and JR know how to move the ball - they know how to pass - they're pros.. They don't need IQ to move the ball - you're just making excuses.... Really bad ones.

Lebron holding the ball isn't the only way to slow down the pace - so don't act like it's the only way - that's dumb as ****.. The team can move the ball and use the shot clock without Lebron just holding it, LIKE OTHER TEAMS DO.

But that isn't what happened - Lebron's time of possession in the Finals was a ridiculous 12 minutes per game - this was 50% higher than the RS leader John Wall's 8.1 minutes.. No team can win a Finals with 1 guy holding the ball that long.

For the series, the 3 guys who played the 3rd, 4th, and 5th highest minutes managed to score a combined 25.5 points on sub 40% TS. 29% FG% and 28% 3pt%.

No surprise - Lebron's teammates ALWAYS underperform in the Finals and against the best teams (see 2009 ECF, 2010 ECSF, 2014 Finals, 2015 Finals).

And we know why - it's statistical fact that he turns teammates into play-finishers (he lowers their APG while increasing their assisted rate), and their simple play-finishing roles are no longer successful against the best teams.. Their diminished playmaking capacity makes it more difficult for them to perform well against the best teams in the playoffs.

And it's all Lebron's fault - HIS style of play turns teammates into play-finishers, which causes their underperformance against the best teams.. and obviously, it's highly suboptimal and leads to 2/6.

MJ took 199 shots in '93 and LeBron took 196. He did have Pippen, who was a better playmaker, and didn't average too many assists.

Jordan's 41 ppg on 51% couldn't realistically be improved, whereas Lebron's 35 ppg on 39% with zero defense had MUCH room for improvement.. The Cavs win easily if Lebron shot 50% AND played good defense, instead of missing literally 80% of his jumpers and letting a role player be > Curry.

Ditto for Lebron's 22 ppg on 35% in 2007 Finals.. Game 1 was an 8-point game in 4th quarter despite 5-15 and 10 points from Lebron... Games 3 and 4 were one-possession nail-biters despite 24 pts on 39% shooting, and 25 points on 33% shooting from Lebron.

So once again - give Lebron 50% shooting (just like Kobe, Melo and Bonzi shot against that same Spurs team), plus good defense so a role player doesn't become > Duncan, and the Cavs EASILY WIN.

So don't make excuses for Lebron's shitty play.
.

[aj1987]

Don't be ridiculous - Shumpert, Delly and JR know how to move the ball - they know how to pass - they're pros.. They don't need IQ to move the ball - you're just making excuses.... Really bad ones.

Lebron holding the ball isn't the only way to slow down the pace - so don't act like it's the only way - that's dumb as ****.. The team can move the ball and use the shot clock without Lebron just holding it, LIKE OTHER TEAMS DO.

But that isn't what happened - Lebron's time of possession in the Finals was a ridiculous 12 minutes per game - this was 50% higher than the RS leader John Wall's 8.1 minutes.. No team can win a Finals with 1 guy holding the ball that long.

Watch the games, you ****ing idiot. This is what happens if you judge players using advanced stats on NBA.com instead of actually watching the games.

No surprise - Lebron's teammates ALWAYS underperform in the Finals and against the best teams (see 2009 ECF, 2010 ECSF, 2014 Finals, 2015 Finals).

And we know why - it's statistical fact that he turns teammates into play-finishers (he lowers their APG while increasing their assisted rate), and their simple play-finishing roles are no longer successful against the best teams.. Their diminished playmaking capacity makes it more difficult for them to perform well against the best teams in the playoffs.

And it's all Lebron's fault - HIS style of play turns teammates into play-finishers, which causes their underperformance against the best teams.. and obviously, it's highly suboptimal and leads to 2/6.

Christ, you're retarded!

You do know that JR, Shump, etc. all have been in the league for a ton of years and started playing with LeBron just last season, right? How does one season of playing with LeBron make them forget what they learned for years?

There isn't a button which LeBron pushes to "turn" his teammates into "play-finishers". That still doesn't explain why JR, Delly, Shump, etc. shot like hot garbage from the 3. You really can't blame LeBron for them missing WIDE open shots. Oh wait. You're 3ball, the resident retard. You'll find a way to blame him.

You really don't understand basketball and you should stop talking about it.

Again, I'll just leave this here. You can bring up your cherrypicked arguments and opinions all you want, but facts are facts.


LeBron was purposefully slowing down the pace. You don't win against the Warriors (with a garbage ass team no less) playing run and gun ball. They're gonna out shoot you and destroy you. The Cavs would've lost in 4 straight blowouts if they played uptempo basketball.

He couldn't hand over the playmaking duties to others nor was he able to let others make decisions, because they're low IQ players. Shump and JR were terrible and can't create for others. Delly had a hard time bringing the ball up court. Actually, Shump is a below average playmaker, but the other two are worse than garbage.

The game in which Mozgov put up 28 points, the Cavs lost by 21 points. LeBron struggled shooting the ball, but he did have 20/12/8. 12 rebounds and 8 assists (oh wait, rebounds and assists only matter when it's Bird). Delly went 3-14, JR 2-12, Shump 2-9, JJ 0-3, etc.. A combined 18% FG%. Literally no one could hit a shot. To top it off, the Warriors went small and Moz couldn't guard anyone on the court. Bogut was benched and Green was playing at the C.

You're blaming LeBron for Moz not getting more involved in game 5 after the 28 point game, when in fact, the COACH played him 9 minutes. He played over 30 minutes in game 6 and LeBron got him involved. Dude put up 17/12/4.

For the series, the 3 guys who played the 3rd, 4th, and 5th highest minutes managed to score a combined 25.5 points on sub 40% TS. 29% FG% and 28% 3pt%.

[catch24]

I don't think Lebron played as great of a series the fanboys claim he did, but to literally blame him and ONLY him for Cleveland losing last year? Absurd.

3ball is either trolling or a world-class fool.