Is Dirk the most overrated player on ISH?

[DMAVS41]

'08 is also the year Avery's massively expanding ego led to about half the team to openly revolt against him by the end of the year.

Avery had bitched and bitched at the Mavs PGs never letting them flow with teh game. He was literally barking out the plays to run for every single possession turning the Mavs into oneof, if not the, slowest paced teams in the league. Then when they traded Harris for Kidd, Avery hailed the move b/c he could finally let his PG run the offense finish out games w/o having to be told what to do.

Except what did Avery do the very first time the Mavs were in a close game vs the Spurs? He pulled Kidd, the Mavs lost, and Avery as per usual shifted all the blame on the team.

They even signed Tyronn Lue late to have a vet backup and suddenly Avery f-ing decided to play JJ Barea in the playoffs after he had failed to see the court for the last month of the season.

By the end Josh Howard was in full on IDGAF about this asshole mode and had a huge birthday party in New Orleans in the middle of the series where about half the roster showed up and partied balls.

Looking back, that '08 team was screwed the moment Avery forced Del Harris off the team at the end of the 2007 season. (which he did to scapegoat Del for the 07 playoff loss to a team EVERYONE but Avery knew was a match up nightmare for Dallas and b/c he didn't like that the players trusted Del more and tended to go to him with team issues.)

Avery was even trying to ban Dirk's personal coach Holger from helping him out of slumps like he has always done. That's how far he was taking his power trip.

I know...****ing Avery man. If we had just had Carlisle or a coach of that caliber from 05 through 08...I'm convinced we would have won two titles.

[DMAVS41]

Give Dirks teams from 01-09 to KG and they make the WCF or finals every year

Definitely not 01 or 02. For sure in 03. Definitely not 04...Nash was hurt and Finley had declined a bit...

05? Maybe...definitely a team better built for KG than Dirk.
06? Doubtful...that team needed Dirk's offense way more than they would have needed what KG brought
07? Maybe...another team better built for KG
08? No chance in hell
09? No chance in hell

[Euroleague]

God.

Shut the **** up...

Make me.

[Euroleague]

already thought i had to explain but its you... the most hated guy on here? top 3?

so everybody knows that everybody is overrated for you that puts vassilis spanoulis to shame.
now you can't even call him the best european player let alone best player in the world. of course you underrate dirk as everybody relevant clearly thinks dirk is the best european player. no freakin argument you can make that will chance that fact.

you understand this? EVERY SINGLE PERSON THAT MATTERS.
haha suck on it.

Nope. Only NBA only fans think this.

People that actually followed European basketball understand that other players from Europe were better than Dirk.

It's stupid ignorant NBA only fans that keep creating these NBA only fans myth that can't grasp this.

Just one of hundreds of NBA myths.

[Euroleague]

How's he overrated. He's underrated if anything.

I've seen people label him soft, defensive liability, shitty rebounder, etc just because he's white.

He's not soft, he's not a liability and he's a good rebounder who always ups his rebounding numbers in the playoffs.

Maybe Garnett's a better defender, but give me Dirk over KG as the first option any day. Dirk led his team to 50+ wins for 11 straight seasons, has KG ever done that? Dirk led his team to a championship as the #1 option, where was KG before he had Ray and Pierce, and later Rondo?

Jesus i love KG but this dirk hate is ridiculous.

KG is overrated also. Not exactly a great argument there.

[Euroleague]

Nash has mentioned multiple times that Cuban not wanting to resign him led to him being more focused in the off season/getting better.

Like he said, the magical NBA marketing myths of players suddenly getting leaps and bounds better in a few months due to "working on their game".........in Nash's case in his 30s...........

[dr.hee]

Nope. Only NBA only fans think this.

People that actually followed European basketball understand that other players from Europe were better than Dirk.

It's stupid ignorant NBA only fans that keep creating these NBA only fans myth that can't grasp this.

Just one of hundreds of NBA myths.

Who was better than Dirk? Maybe the bald, hairy back garbage time point guard who ran away from Houston because he couldn't do shit in the NBA?

[Euroleague]

Who was better than Dirk? Maybe the bald, hairy back garbage time point guard who ran away from Houston because he couldn't do shit in the NBA?

Shut up fake German.

[dr.hee]

Shut up fake German.

Hey, have some respect. I average only 2.7 ppg less in the NBA than VSpan. So I'm pretty good, right?

[Black Mamba's B]

Nah. Nash doe

[Jailblazers7]

Nope. Only NBA only fans think this.

People that actually followed European basketball understand that other players from Europe were better than Dirk.

It's stupid ignorant NBA only fans that keep creating these NBA only fans myth that can't grasp this.

Just one of hundreds of NBA myths.

Who do you consider better? Dirk clearly has a great argument for best Euro player ever at the absolute worst.

[Euroleague]

Who do you consider better? Dirk clearly has a great argument for best Euro player ever at the absolute worst.

European players I consider better than Dirk:

Nikos Galis
Drazen Petrovic
Drazen Dalipagic

I can't really say for guys like Corbalan, Emiliano Rodriguez, Sergey Belov, Dino Meneghin, Kresimir Cosic, Radivoj Korac and guys like that because that was before I saw them play at all in the time.

But I have seen a lot of Cosic games on tape, and so it's hard to put it in perspective in the era now to then. But his skill for a big man was INCREDIBLE. Much better than Sabonis. But it's before my time so I don't really know how to judge it.

Debatable is Navarro, Jasikevicius and Pau. Dirk isn't clearly better than them and it's the same era. I probably put Dirk above Jasikevicius though because Jasikevicius was horrible at defense, even though he was incredible at play creation, something Dirk hardly did at all.

But Dirk compared to Navarro and Pau, I don't think there is honestly any legit argument at all to say he's actually been better than they were. It's just NBA only fans and NBA hype and gimmick marketing. The false, FALSE and UNTRUE belief that NBA play only counts and matters and is somehow a billion gagillion times more important and higher level than everything else.

It's total complete bullshit and untrue and even the players themselves admit that off the record.

For the players in a younger generation then I guess the obvious comparisons come to Spanoulis and Parker. But their careers are far from over, while Dirk (even though he seems still playing well) is at the twilight of his career, as are all those other players. So it's not even a point to bring them up yet, because they have several years of their primes left and it's not worth it to even speculate yet.

So, of the players I saw,

Nikos Galis
Drazen Petrovic
Drazen Dalipagic

and from the tape I saw of Cosic, he was absolutely unbelievable, but it's probably not fair to include him, just because I don't really have a context of that.

And, I am saying, Dirk is really no better than Pau and Navarro from his own era for me.

So yeah, clearly most overrated player on ISH by far and away, because he's universally hailed as the "best European player ever" here, and you are not allowed to even question that.

And like I am saying, this is not even taking into account players like Belov, from an earlier era, that actually most of the basketball historians and experts from Europe say was the BEST European player ever. I just can't really comment if he was better than Dirk or not because the only game I saw him play was the 1972 Olympics gold medal game.


And this post should also further drive the point home about how I said Sabonis is the 2nd most overrated player on ISH. Because of all the "he was the best European player ever" and "he was the best player they ever had in Europe" and all those bullshit posts that reign supreme here..........

No, he was not. He was more like the Ralph Sampson of Europe. The guy everyone wondered about "if he did not have those injuries". The fact is that shit gets old after awhile. It's just more of this bullshit NBA nonsense hype marketing gimmicks and myths and legends.

[97 bulls]

Like...seriously...do you actually think Dirk has had comparable help?

Yes. I think that Dirks teams have routinely been top three as far as talent year in and out.

You also ignore that we actually have had shit centers for the most part. In fact, we didn't even play centers early on. Lafrentz...are you serious? He's a fine player, but he's redundant with Dirk. Diop/Damp? Not terrible, but hardly good.*

Diop was a joke. But for the most part, the Mavs have always had solid centers. Especially for we saw in the 00s.

So not only did Dirk go pretty much entire career (again, outside of 03) without having the all-nba 2nd guy almost always needed...he also was missing a key part of what you would want around him at center.*

We disagree. Having Nash and Finley, for roughly five years. Along with a deep bench. Most greats get that kind of help for a couple. Then Jason Terry and Josh Howard. And again add a considerable amount of depth off the bench. And while that may not be on the level of Shaq and Kobe, Duncan/Ginobli/Parker, Garnett/Allen/Pierce, Bryant/Gasol/Odom, Wade/James/Bosh true, 1-12? They're on the same level. But what separates the Mavs from the other teams of their era and Dirk, is that aside from the Celtics, the other teams have multiple championships. And those teams as they were constructed, didn't have that much time together. Even you feel that the Mavs 2011 run was a fluke.

As far as those "stinkers", I believed they should've beaten the Lakers in 2010 once they aquired Chandler in that mid season trade. 07? 06? And 03. Thats four years.

[SATAN]

It's Jimmy Butler.