Larry Bird Had 4 Seasons Shooting under 29% from 3 Point Range

[Champ]

Mychal Thompson's comment in that SI archive is pretty humorous.

Some of the posts already touched on it, but I think it's important to reiterate the influence of Bill Fitch in all of this. Fitch was a domineering coach who absolutely hated the three, and after Bird's rookie year, openly discouraged his young star from using it.

Bird, himself, was quoted as saying he didn't particularly care for the three early in his career, even though he clearly took shots in college that were from similar range.

Many of the threes that he did take during that period were often attempted near the tail-end of games when his team was trailing. This is how the three was utilized in the early-80s - a come-from-behind shot that was not typically part of regular offensive sets as we see it today.

When K.C. Jones took over as the Celtics coach in '83-'84, there was a change in attitude about the shot; and it's no coincidence that we see Bird's numbers jump at this point.

League-wide, teams started integrating the shot into their regular offensive sets around the mid-80s, as well. The introduction of the Three Point Shootout in '86 finally cemented the three as not only a useful tool, but also a celebrated one.

It's hard to estimate how Bird's percentages would bear out in the current league, but I would suspect that with today's elite guard play, and their ability to penetrate and collapse defenses and then quickly kick out to the perimeter for the open three, would make for ideal conditions for a shooter like Bird to thrive.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Some of the posts already touched on it, but I think it's important to reiterate the influence of Bill Fitch in all of this. Fitch was a domineering coach who absolutely hated the three, and after Bird's rookie year, openly discouraged his young star from using it.

Bird, himself, was quoted as saying he didn't particularly care for the three early in his career, even though he clearly took shots in college that were from similar range.

Many of the threes that he did take during that period were often attempted near the tail-end of games when his team was trailing. This is how the three was utilized in the early-80s - a come-from-behind shot that was not typically part of regular offensive sets as we see it today.

When K.C. Jones took over as the Celtics coach in '83-'84, there was a change in attitude about the shot; and it's no coincidence that we see Bird's numbers jump at this point.

League-wide, teams started integrating the shot into their regular offensive sets around the mid-80s, as well. The introduction of the Three Point Shootout in '86 finally cemented the three as not only a useful tool, but also a celebrated one.

It's hard to estimate how Bird's percentages would bear out in the current league, but I would suspect that with today's elite guard play, and their ability to penetrate and collapse defenses and then quickly kick out to the perimeter for the open three, would make for ideal conditions for a shooter like Bird to thrive.

Well said.

His career high in 3-pointers attempted is 10, he pulled it three times... and in two out of those three he reached his career high in 3-points made, which is 7 (once as a shell, vs Reggie Miller and the Pacers):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkU0ZWOVIW0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AtciQPrPnA

And, like I've said, he still did lots of great "things", as far as the 3pt shot, even by today's standards... now imagine if he had come up with the 3pt line and played in "3pt era" (I'd say even more, as far as 3pointers, for a dude like Dale Ellis but that's a whole nother discussion..).

[miller-time]

people like him cuz hes white

Yeah but people also dismiss him for that reason. Look how many x vs Bird comparisons there are. No one is comparing players to Magic or Shaq or Dr J or Kareem. Bird is the guy most people think they can compare their favourite player to and win the debate.

[Pointguard]

In the beginning Bird was inconsistent. And it got wilder in the playoffs. But he was always a threat 24 feet and in. And he could beat you in a variety of different ways. He was always really smart and got up for showdowns with other small forwards. But before 1984, Bird didn't know when his shot was going to desert him. And it did more often than not.

I don't get the people who say Bird was better than Magic before 1984 when Magic had two FMVP's Bird had none and Magic was just better and more consistent in the playoffs. In the finals it was an even bigger gap. In the playoffs Magic was rarely ever more than a basket way from Bird (ppg) and Bird's team really needed him to score. Magic shot better than Bird in every shooting metric, advanced or raw, outside of foul shooting and the few three pointers either was taking. In these days it would never fly toward Bird being better.

[Champ]

In the beginning Bird was inconsistent. And it got wilder in the playoffs. But he was always a threat 24 feet and in. And he could beat you in a variety of different ways. He was always really smart and got up for showdowns with other small forwards. But before 1984, Bird didn't know when his shot was going to desert him. And it did more often than not.

I don't get the people who say Bird was better than Magic before 1984 when Magic had two FMVP's Bird had none and Magic was just better and more consistent in the playoffs. In the finals it was an even bigger gap. In the playoffs Magic was rarely ever more than a basket way from Bird (ppg) and Bird's team really needed him to score. Magic shot better than Bird in every shooting metric, advanced or raw, outside of foul shooting and the few three pointers either was taking. In these days it would never fly toward Bird being better.

In terms of finals MVPs, Bird had only one finals appearance pre-1984 and played great. He had a fine playoff run that year, as well. Magic played in three finals, so it's not really a fair comparison.

Bird was clearly ahead of Magic in regular season play, however, during their first first four years in the league together. He won the Rookie of the Year award and finishing well-ahead of Magic in MVP voting during this period, which is why Bird was widely considered the better player at the time.

[Pointguard]

In terms of finals MVPs, Bird had only one finals appearance pre-1984 and played great. He had a fine playoff run that year, as well. Magic played in three finals, so it's not really a fair comparison.

Bird was clearly ahead of Magic in regular season play, however, during their first first four years in the league together. He won the Rookie of the Year award and finishing well-ahead of Magic in MVP voting during this period, which is why Bird was widely considered the better player at the time.

The comparison happens all the time between Durant and Lebron now. All the time. Pretty much the exact same scenario. And Bird didn't play great in his finals appearance and was inconsistent as he usually was in the playoffs before '84. He lost 5 ppg and shot bad.

[Hands of Iron]

Don't really like talking numbers but yeah, Bird undeniably took his game to another level in the 1983-84 season (also K.C. Jones first as head coach), particularly as far as scoring and he probably had a lot more freedom to do so. He had been coming off a pair of sub .430 shooting playoff runs at 17-20 ppg. In '84, he put together an immense start-to-finish run of 28/11/6 on 52% FG/61% TS throughout the playoffs. He needed that type of performance and he needed something similar again to solidify his standing, which he did in '86 (26/9/8 on 52% FG/62% TS). Bird only had nine healthy seasons (including his rookie year) before injuries finally took him out and knocked him out of his prime, yet he's still Top 5 all-time in terms of NBA MVP win shares. Undeniable impact on the Celtics over those years as well:

1978-79: 29-53 [No Bird]
~ Bird Joins Celtics ~
1979-80: 61-21 [Conference Finals] [NBA ROY/All-NBA 1st]
1980-81: 62-20 [NBA Champions] [All-NBA 1st]
1981-82: 63-19 [Conference Finals] [All-NBA 1st]
1982-83: 56-26 [Conference Semi-Finals] [All-NBA 1st]
1983-84: 62-20 [NBA Champions] [NBA MVP/All-NBA 1st]
1984-85: 63-19 [NBA Finals] [NBA MVP/All-NBA 1st]
1985-86: 67-15 [NBA Champions] [NBA MVP/All-NBA 1st]
1986-87: 59-23 [NBA Finals] [All-NBA 1st]
1987-88: 57-25 [Conference Finals] [All-NBA 1st]
~ Lose Bird for Season to Injury ~
1988-89: 42-40 [First Round]

And then he was pretty much finished as an elite player. What's alarming is that Bird is often slammed for having such a great supporting cast even though his level of opposition in the Eastern Conference and Finals is amongst the best in history, yet in 1988-89 when he went down Boston had McHale, Parish, DJ and even Reggie Lewis stepping into the mix (with 18.5 ppg) all for basically the entire season and couldn't do any better than a near .500 record and first round exit.

[TheMilkyBarKid]

Don't really like talking numbers but yeah, Bird undeniably took his game to another level in the 1983-84 season (also K.C. Jones first as head coach), particularly as far as scoring and he probably had a lot more freedom to do so. He had been coming off a pair of sub .430 shooting playoff runs at 17-20 ppg. In '84, he put together an immense start-to-finish run of 28/11/6 on 52% FG/61% TS throughout the playoffs. He needed that type of performance and he needed something similar again to solidify his standing, which he did in '86 (26/9/8 on 52% FG/62% TS). Bird only had nine healthy seasons (including his rookie year) before injuries finally took him out and knocked him out of his prime, yet he's still Top 5 all-time in terms of NBA MVP win shares. Undeniable impact on the Celtics over those years as well:

1978-79: 29-53 [No Bird]
~ Bird Joins Celtics ~
1979-80: 61-21 [Conference Finals] [NBA ROY/All-NBA 1st]
1980-81: 62-20 [NBA Champions] [All-NBA 1st]
1981-82: 63-19 [Conference Finals] [All-NBA 1st]
1982-83: 56-26 [Conference Semi-Finals] [All-NBA 1st]
1983-84: 62-20 [NBA Champions] [NBA MVP/All-NBA 1st]
1984-85: 63-19 [NBA Finals] [NBA MVP/All-NBA 1st]
1985-86: 67-15 [NBA Champions] [NBA MVP/All-NBA 1st]
1986-87: 59-23 [NBA Finals] [All-NBA 1st]
1987-88: 57-25 [Conference Finals] [All-NBA 1st]
~ Lose Bird for Season to Injury ~
1988-89: 42-40 [First Round]

And then he was pretty much finished as an elite player. What's alarming is that Bird is often slammed for having such a great supporting cast even though his level of opposition in the Eastern Conference and Finals is amongst the best in history, yet in 1988-89 when he went down Boston had McHale, Parish, DJ and even Reggie Lewis stepping into the mix (with 18.5 ppg) all for basically the entire season and couldn't do any better than a near .500 record and first round exit.

Great post, Bird's impact was beyond individual numbers, even though he could absolutely stuff a stat sheet.

[bagelred]

You realize nobody shot 3's back during those years...and those numbers are about league average.

Nevertheless, Bird ended up with an impressive 37.6% 3-point average during a time when the three was not a big part of the game, and nobody practiced the shot....

Now guys ONLY shoot 3's...the league average for 3's is crazy high now. 36% average. Wow. During those years you mention league average seemed to be about 25%. Huge difference.

[LeBird]

In the beginning Bird was inconsistent. And it got wilder in the playoffs. But he was always a threat 24 feet and in. And he could beat you in a variety of different ways. He was always really smart and got up for showdowns with other small forwards. But before 1984, Bird didn't know when his shot was going to desert him. And it did more often than not.

I don't get the people who say Bird was better than Magic before 1984 when Magic had two FMVP's Bird had none and Magic was just better and more consistent in the playoffs. In the finals it was an even bigger gap. In the playoffs Magic was rarely ever more than a basket way from Bird (ppg) and Bird's team really needed him to score. Magic shot better than Bird in every shooting metric, advanced or raw, outside of foul shooting and the few three pointers either was taking. In these days it would never fly toward Bird being better.

Yeah, but Bird should have had one (Cedric's one) and Magic stole one from Kareem (who would have got it if he bothered to show up to claim the prize). It is nothing more than revisionist nonsense that people try to paint Magic as better in those years when he patently wasn't. By 84 Magic finally cracked the top 5 in MVP voting for the first time while Larry went 4th in his Rookie year, and 2nd 3 times in a row. Magic didn't finish above Larry until 87 and in 88 Bird took over again. Which shows that in their first 9 years, Bird was superior to Magic in voting every year bar 1, despite having the inferior team and less help across the decade. It's only when Bird's injuries slowed him down that Magic got to his level.

And it's a stinking piece of doodoo to try to paint him out as a better shot as Magic clearly wasn't. Magic wasn't guarded like Bird nor was he the centre of attention like Bird in terms of scoring, nor did he have to create his own shot as often as Bird because of his teammates. The reason Magic had better shooting % was because he could pick and choose whereas Larry had to carry the team. Only a moron would think the two are even comparable.

Larry Bird is the greatest pure shooter the NBA has ever seen.

[LeBird]

And then he was pretty much finished as an elite player. What's alarming is that Bird is often slammed for having such a great supporting cast even though his level of opposition in the Eastern Conference and Finals is amongst the best in history, yet in 1988-89 when he went down Boston had McHale, Parish, DJ and even Reggie Lewis stepping into the mix (with 18.5 ppg) all for basically the entire season and couldn't do any better than a near .500 record and first round exit.

A lot of fans of players like to claim this, but it is probably the most true for Bird. Even though his numbers are amazing, he's even better than his numbers showed. If you watched him you knew why. Not every assist or point or rebound or what have you is equal. Larry had a greater share of clutch stats than anyone I've seen. By this I mean he tended to make the point, rebound, assist, steal, etc, right when he needed to and he was not a stat-padder.

[LAZERUSS]

Yeah, but Bird should have had one (Cedric's one) and Magic stole one from Kareem (who would have got it if he bothered to show up to claim the prize). It is nothing more than revisionist nonsense that people try to paint Magic as better in those years when he patently wasn't. By 84 Magic finally cracked the top 5 in MVP voting while Larry went 4th in his Rookie year, and 2nd 3 times in a row. Magic didn't finish above Larry until 87 and in 88 Bird took over again. Which shows that in their first 9 years, Bird was superior to Magic in voting every year bar 1, despite having the inferior team and less help across the decade. It's only when Bird's injuries slowed him down that Magic got to his level.

And it's a stinking piece of doodoo to try to paint him out as a better shot as Magic clearly wasn't. Magic wasn't guarded like Bird nor was he the centre of attention like Bird in terms of scoring, nor did he have to create his own shot as often as Bird because of his teammates. The reason Magic had better shooting % was because he could pick and choose whereas Larry had to carry the team. Only a moron would think the two are even comparable.

Larry Bird is the greatest pure shooter the NBA has ever seen.

Magic was better in the post-season, and by a large margin, and was better H2H, especially in the post-season.

As for Bird being a better shooter...Magic was FAR more efficient, AND, BTW, in their career H2H games, it was MAGIC who had the TWO highest games (37 and 39 points.) CLEARLY, Magic could have been an ELITE scorer had he so chosen.

I would take ANY version of Magic over ANY version of Bird.

As for the OP...

Bird played in 164 post-season games. Guess how many 3pt shots he made in those 164 games? 80 (yes 80!), or less than one every two games. And he only shot .321 from the arc in those games, as well.


Oh, and BTW, Magic was ROBBED of a FMBP in '88. He was CLEARLY the best player on the floor (and against the SAME Piston team that Bird shot .351 from the field against in the ECF's). As for Bird not winning the FMVP in '81. You are kidding right? He was a virtual no-show in two of the games (only 8 points in each, and on 3-11 shooting in each), and overall averaged 15 ppg on a .419 FG%.

And while KAJ didn't show up for the clinching win in '80, Magic DOMINATED that game. 42 points on 14-23 FG/FGA and 14-14 FT/FTA, 15 rebounds (which was FIVE more than any other player on the floor), and 7 assists. Overall, magic averaged 21.5 ppg. 11.2 rpg, 8.7 apg (as a part-time PG), and shot a series high .573 from the field. One can only wonder what his numbers would have looked like had he been the primary option in that series.