Why is Mark Aguirre not in the Hall of Fame?

[Xiao Yao You]

Bird happened to be arguably the greatest alpha dog EVER at his position.

He also played the 4 so he really shouldn't be in this conversation at all.

But guys like Baylor, Hawkins, Doc, Nique, Hill, and Lebron prove that it's an awesome weapon to have in your disposal. Guards like MJ, Kobe, T Mac, Vince, Thompson, Wade, Carter, Rose, Westbrook, and Drexler prove this out as well. So being known as a freak athlete alpha makes u a player that can do shit u can't teach. Im not saying this makes u better than a guy who's an average to good athlete. But when u have a guy like Bron, MJ or Kobe who's epic all around AND are freak athletes, it makes them quite frankly TRULY the total package in every sense!

Call me a troll all you want. Dominique doesn't belong with those names. He was just a high scoring small forward. He never lived up to the hype as far as I'm concerned. Athletically he should have been up with these guys but he just wasn't. His hopping around the floor never impressed me. Same as Carmelo today.

[magnax1]

While I do think Aguirre should probably be in the HOF, it's also quite clear that Dantley was better then him. The whole comparing teams record things never works because it's nearly impossible to put into context. Just think how many times that year when Billups was traded to the Nuggets you heard about how much of an improvement he caused, when in reality he was a downgrade that got lucky that a couple of guys had their best years up to that point.
While Aguirre probably wasn't a downgrade, Dantley just got unlucky that when he was traded to the Mavs, Tarpley, who seemed to me the best player on the Mavs during their conference finals run (from the little I saw) was injured when he got there. That's actually probably what caused the difference between Dantley and Aguirre's records that year.
As for the Jazz playing just as well in 84 as 85 when Dantley was out half the year, it is true. However, Bailey came into his own in 85, Stockton was one of the best backups in the league and their defense improved from 12 to 1st in the league. However, despite all their improvement as a team, their offense fell from 9th to 21st (2nd to last) in the league in 85.

[Xiao Yao You]

Stockton was one of the best backups in the league

He was one of the best players in the league unfortunately the Jazz weren't smart enough to trade Rickey Green when he was worth something instead losing him in the expansion draft, and let John loose on the league.

[bizil]

He also played the 4 so he really shouldn't be in this conversation at all.



Call me a troll all you want. Dominique doesn't belong with those names. He was just a high scoring small forward. He never lived up to the hype as far as I'm concerned. Athletically he should have been up with these guys but he just wasn't. His hopping around the floor never impressed me. Same as Carmelo today.

This is why I think Nique is arguably the most disrespected all time great of all time. For one, the most PREMIUM asset in the sport is being a alpha dog scoring threat. It manifests itself in different ways. U have great all around perimeter players like MJ, Bird, Kobe, T Mac, Hondo, Barry, Bron, Wade, West, Drexler, etc who are also alpha dogs. U have PG's like Magic, Isiah, Big O, Frazier, Payton, Paul, DWill, Nash, etc. who can turn into tremendous alpha dogs if that what the team needs.

But then u have guys like Doc, Nique, Baylor, English, Gervin, Aguirre, Vince, etc. that are true alpha dogs as well. They may not be the all around threat the other guys are, but AT THE MOST PREMIUM ASSET IN THE SPORT, they are right there with the best. So if u are great at the most PREMIUM ASSET, it can supercede many things.

When it comes to Nique, he was an epic alpha dog and very good to great rebounder for a SF. I bet u can't name 10 SF's EVER who have averaged at least 25 points and 9 boards in a season. Guess what, Nique has done that. So if anything, u have a SF who was a great scorer AND great rebounder. Nique wasn't a one dimensional player at all. Just because he wasn't as great all around as Bird DOESN'T mean he sucked all around.

[bizil]

He also played the 4 so he really shouldn't be in this conversation at all.



Call me a troll all you want. Dominique doesn't belong with those names. He was just a high scoring small forward. He never lived up to the hype as far as I'm concerned. Athletically he should have been up with these guys but he just wasn't. His hopping around the floor never impressed me. Same as Carmelo today.

Bird goes down in history as a SF. When u are running with McHale and Parish, Bird was the 3 man. Sure Bird played a lot of 4. But MJ played plenty of SF and some PG as well. U have primary positions and secondary positions. Bird's secondary spot was PF. I would rather have LB at SF where he can use his size advantage, have more room to use his epic passing, and have the three ball at his disposal. Bird to me was more of a SF than a PF to begin with anyway. He just happened to be 6'9 and 230 pounds, which happened to be the size of many PF's during that era.

[KevinNYC]

If Bird played the 4 what did McHale play?

Also it's not clear that Detroit wins the titles it won with Aguirre with Dantley.

When they traded Dantley he was their leading scorer. However, Detroit got better offensively AFTER they traded Dantley even though Aguirre's scoring went down and his numbers lower than Dantley's. They were scoring something like 5 points a game after they traded Dantley. That's because Dantley killed ball movement. He dribbled and dribbled and dribbled and when he did pass it was usually way late in the shot clock. Also the way he played did help the spacing for the guards. Another reason they won two titles after they traded him was the trade freed up minutes for Dennis Rodman.

[bizil]

If Bird played the 4 what did McHale play?

Also it's not clear that Detroit wins the titles it won with Aguirre with Dantley.

When they traded Dantley he was their leading scorer. However, Detroit got better offensively AFTER they traded Dantley even though Aguirre's scoring went down and his numbers lower than Dantley's. They were scoring something like 5 points a game after they traded Dantley. That's because Dantley killed ball movement. He dribbled and dribbled and dribbled and when he did pass it was usually way late in the shot clock. Also the way he played did help the spacing for the guards. Another reason they won two titles after they traded him was the trade freed up minutes for Dennis Rodman.

Great points! I also think Aguirre could score in more ways than Dantley. Mark had more range, was a better slasher, and was still a beast on the block like Dantley was. Mark was also a better passer than Dantley too. And as u stated, AD was the ultimate ball stopper, even though he was still a great player. Aguirre in my book was the final piece to get those rings. Im not saying they couldn't have gotten it done with AD. But when u have a comparable scorer in Mark who had a more complete offensive skillset AND a better all around game, plus was best friends with your HOF PG, it was a natural fit and a great trade.

[Xiao Yao You]

Just because he wasn't as great all around as Bird DOESN'T mean he sucked all around.

He didn't suck but he wasn't in a class above the others despite the hype to the contrary.

If Bird played the 4 what did McHale play?

Initially he was the 6th man and Bird started at the 4 and later when Mchale would go to the bench Bird would play 4 next to Parish. Bird was a forward. McHale was a post player. Not sure why everyone gets so hung up on positions. You can play or you can't. Bird could play!

Mark had more range, was a better slasher, and was still a beast on the block like Dantley was. Mark was also a better passer than Dantley too.

He had more range but again at that time that wasn't a huge factor. To say he was a better slasher when AD was so adept at drawing fouls is highly arguable too and AD got plenty of assists as well so he could pass.