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Old 03-28-2013, 02:16 PM   #61
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Default Re: Bulls effectively use the "Jordan Rules" against LeBron James.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmanyr2k
I thought the hits on Lebron last night were weaksauce and I can't believe he even got mad at the Taj Gibson foul because Gibson didn't even follow through or do anything malicious. He simply prevented a layup. It was one of the weakest "hard fouls" I've ever seen a player get angry about and the retaliation on Boozer (while funny as hell) was just dumb. Lebron had a good game on paper but a lot of his points came from transition. In the half court he didn't look comfortable at all and he wasn't trusting his jumpshot in the 2nd half. He didn't seem to be in any kind of flow. I'm not sure if the Bulls physical play had to do with much of that since it wasn't as physical as people are making out. It sure as hell wasn't anything close to the pounding Jordan used to get lol.
THIS

These LeBron fans crying about the "rough" treatment he got last night should go back and watch how the Pistons Bad Boys and Riley Knicks went after him.
These stans would faint if any team treated Bron the way MJ was treated
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Old 03-28-2013, 02:46 PM   #62
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Default Re: Bulls effectively use the "Jordan Rules" against LeBron James.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMan
THIS

These LeBron fans crying about the "rough" treatment he got last night should go back and watch how the Pistons Bad Boys and Riley Knicks went after him.
These stans would faint if any team treated Bron the way MJ was treated
Who cares how Jordan was treated? What does that have to do with the games of today?

The difference is that the way MJ was treated was within the rules. The rules have changed. You think people in the 80's and 90's didn't bitch about how soft Jordan had it compared to the 50's and 60's?

Look, I think defensive 3 seconds is a stupid rule, but it's the rules. If you see somebody constantly get away with camping in the paint, you're gonna bitch about it.

It doesn't matter if those fouls weren't flagrants when MJ was playing. By the standards the NBA uses in todays game, they generally are. If you determine a certain criteria for the rules, guys are gonna be upset when those rules aren't enforced. Especially when they get a flagrant on the other end for something as weak as putting your shoulder into a screen.
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Old 03-28-2013, 02:52 PM   #63
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Default Re: Bulls effectively use the "Jordan Rules" against LeBron James.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NumberSix
Who cares how Jordan was treated? What does that have to do with the games of today?

The difference is that the way MJ was treated was within the rules. The rules have changed. You think people in the 80's and 90's didn't bitch about how soft Jordan had it compared to the 50's and 60's?

Look, I think defensive 3 seconds is a stupid rule, but it's the rules. If you see somebody constantly get away with camping in the paint, you're gonna bitch about it.

It doesn't matter if those fouls weren't flagrants when MJ was playing. By the standards the NBA uses in todays game, they generally are. If you determine a certain criteria for the rules, guys are gonna be upset when those rules aren't enforced. Especially when they get a flagrant on the other end for something as weak as putting your shoulder into a screen.
All I'm saying is that Bron has it easy and you guys should quit bitching. I didn't see any over the top rough play yesterday but since I'm been watching since the mid 80s, I just saw it as hardnosed basketball.

Ever hear about hard fouls? They are still permitted, right? or are you required to step outta the way and let the other guy have a lay up/dunk?
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Old 03-28-2013, 02:54 PM   #64
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Default Re: Bulls effectively use the "Jordan Rules" against LeBron James.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NumberSix
Who cares how Jordan was treated? What does that have to do with the games of today?

The difference is that the way MJ was treated was within the rules. The rules have changed. You think people in the 80's and 90's didn't bitch about how soft Jordan had it compared to the 50's and 60's?

Look, I think defensive 3 seconds is a stupid rule, but it's the rules. If you see somebody constantly get away with camping in the paint, you're gonna bitch about it.

It doesn't matter if those fouls weren't flagrants when MJ was playing. By the standards the NBA uses in todays game, they generally are. If you determine a certain criteria for the rules, guys are gonna be upset when those rules aren't enforced. Especially when they get a flagrant on the other end for something as weak as putting your shoulder into a screen.

They weren't flagrant though? Kirk held him and Lebron's momentum took them both down. It wasn't like Kirk grabbed him by the shoulders and threw him down. Taj was clearly going for the ball. What is he supposed to do? Not go for the ball in case he hits someone in the face? The game was clearly physical, but they didn't intentionally try to hurt him.

Lebron's flagrant was CLEARLY intentional. Whether it was weak or not, doesn't really matter much in this case because of his intent.
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Old 03-28-2013, 03:09 PM   #65
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Default Re: Bulls effectively use the "Jordan Rules" against LeBron James.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMan
All I'm saying is that Bron has it easy and you guys should quit bitching. I didn't see any over the top rough play yesterday but since I'm been watching since the mid 80s, I just saw it as hardnosed basketball.

Ever hear about hard fouls? They are still permitted, right? or are you required to step outta the way and let the other guy have a lay up/dunk?
Hard fouls are fine, but let's not play dumb here. There would nothing to bitch about if they didn't call that ridiculous flagrant on LeBron for running shoulder first into a screen or Battier getting called for his hand touching Boozer's hip on a rebound he had no chance of getting anyway.

Taj wraps his arm around LeBron's shoulder/collar from behind on a drive. In today's NBA, usually a flagrant. We've certainly seen flagrants for less. But they say just a common foul... Ok, that's fine. They're letting them play physical. But then minutes later they're calling some really weak stuff on the other end.

Come on man. I know you don't like the Heat, but you can't feel good about that. You guys bitched for days about an offensive interference inconsistency. It never feels good to feel like the officiating is inconsistent. There's gotta be consistency.
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Old 03-28-2013, 03:17 PM   #66
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Default Re: Bulls effectively use the "Jordan Rules" against LeBron James.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NumberSix
Who cares how Jordan was treated? What does that have to do with the games of today?

The difference is that the way MJ was treated was within the rules. The rules have changed. You think people in the 80's and 90's didn't bitch about how soft Jordan had it compared to the 50's and 60's?

Look, I think defensive 3 seconds is a stupid rule, but it's the rules. If you see somebody constantly get away with camping in the paint, you're gonna bitch about it.

It doesn't matter if those fouls weren't flagrants when MJ was playing. By the standards the NBA uses in todays game, they generally are. If you determine a certain criteria for the rules, guys are gonna be upset when those rules aren't enforced. Especially when they get a flagrant on the other end for something as weak as putting your shoulder into a screen.
You obviously dont even know the rules to the current era so who would trust you on any type of comparison?

Lebron's 'flagrant' was a non basketball play with intent to hit somebody else. It was retaliation. So it is well within the refs jurisdiction to call the play beyond a normal, routine personal. Shouldve been a tech instead, but they both basically do the same thing.
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Old 03-28-2013, 03:21 PM   #67
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Default Re: Bulls effectively use the "Jordan Rules" against LeBron James.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tpols
You obviously dont even know the rules to the current era so who would trust you on any type of comparison?

Lebron's 'flagrant' was a non basketball play with intent to hit somebody else. It was retaliation. So it is well within the refs jurisdiction to call the play beyond a normal, routine personal. Shouldve been a tech instead, but they both basically do the same thing.
You obviously missing the point.

I'm not arguing about that particular play. I'm just pointing out that in the context of how much physicality they were letting slide in that game, it's just weird to suddenly call a flagrant on that.
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Old 03-28-2013, 03:23 PM   #68
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Default Re: Bulls effectively use the "Jordan Rules" against LeBron James.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NumberSix
You obviously missing the point.

I'm not arguing about that particular play. I'm just pointing out that in the context of how much physicality they were letting slide in that game, it's just weird to suddenly call a flagrant on that.
They just called a flagrant on CHICAGO the play directly before.

So when they call one on the heat that was fvcking clear as day its unfair?

GTFO.
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Old 03-28-2013, 03:26 PM   #69
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Default Re: Bulls effectively use the "Jordan Rules" against LeBron James.

Detroit is the most fundamentally sound defensive team I ever saw when it came to guarding MJ. I don't know where this notion that their game plan was built around beating him up comes from. I've seen every Bulls-Pistons game from 88-93 and that's just some bogus revisionist history. It makes Detroit sound like low IQ goons who didn't know how to play REAL basketball, when in fact, their ridiculously high IQ and defensive skill is why they had so much success against MJ to begin with. In Dumars, you easily had the best 1-on-1 defender MJ ever went up against(aided by hand-checking, of course). Nobody was better at keeping MJ in front of him. And when it came to rotating after providing help on MJ(and they did this all the time in '88 and '89), they had no peers. Even with all the doubles on MJ, it was amazing how few open shots Chicago's shooters generally got. The 88-90 Pistons are easily the most fundamentally sound defense MJ ever faced and that's 70% of the reason why he was so inconsistent against them from '88 to '90. The other 30% being his own stubbornness, because he was better off being a jump shooter (which is what happened in '91) against the schemes Detroit utilized against him, but MJ wanted to prove he could drive against them and that usually led to his inefficiency.

This notion that MJ got "pounded" any time he took it inside against Detroit is a humungous myth. Go and watch any of those games - that's not what was happening. It's actual defense - 1-on-1 D, timely help and perfect rotations - that's what contained MJ.

As far as LeBron's concerned, there's not the slightest history of physical play(hard fouls) having the remotest impact against him in his career. He is more equipped to handle that than any perimeter player in NBA history. The best defensive game plan against LeBron is still overloading his side of the court, shading hard and hoping his 2nd option(the jumper) isn't falling and he isn't being active without the ball - which is what happened in the 2nd half last night. He wasn't aggressive at all after an 'easy' first half, where Chicago mostly single-covered him, before switching their game plan entirely in the 2nd. His passiveness was his own worst enemy.

His complaining last night had more to do with him being the most disrespected star in the game today when it comes to getting fouls. LeBron just doesn't get the calls this year. 7 FTA per game for him is a joke, when he is easily driving more than he ever did in '11 and '12, but is attempting far fewer free throws. Imagine if he was officiated like Durant, Harden or heck, even Kobe, who takes more free throws too!

Last edited by Indian guy : 03-28-2013 at 03:34 PM.
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Old 03-28-2013, 03:30 PM   #70
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Default Re: Bulls effectively use the "Jordan Rules" against LeBron James.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tpols
They just called a flagrant on CHICAGO the play directly before.

So when they call one on the heat that was fvcking clear as day its unfair?

GTFO.


Yeah..... and the call got reversed.


Lol. I mean, Jesus Christ.
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Old 03-28-2013, 03:39 PM   #71
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Default Re: Bulls effectively use the "Jordan Rules" against LeBron James.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Indian guy
Detroit is the most fundamentally sound defensive team I ever saw when it came to guarding MJ. I don't know where this notion that their game plan was built around beating him up comes from. I've seen every Bulls-Pistons game from 88-93 and that's just some bogus revisionist history. It makes Detroit sound like low IQ goons who didn't know how to play REAL basketball, when in fact, their ridiculously high IQ and defensive skill is why they had so much success against MJ to begin with. In Dumars, you easily had the best 1-on-1 defender MJ ever went up against(aided by hand-checking, of course). Nobody was better at keeping MJ in front of him. And when it came to rotating after providing help on MJ(and they did this all the time in '88 and '89), they had no peers. Even with all the doubles on MJ, it was amazing how few open shots Chicago's shooters generally got. The 88-90 Pistons are easily the most fundamentally sound defense MJ ever faced and that's 70% of the reason why he was so inconsistent against them from '88 to '90. The other 30% being his own stubbornness, because he was better off being a jump shooter (which is what happened in '91) against the schemes Detroit utilized against him, but MJ wanted to prove he could drive against them and that usually led to his inefficiency.

This notion that MJ got "pounded" any time he took it inside against Detroit is a humungous myth. Go and watch any of those games - that's not what was happening. It's actual defense - 1-on-1 D, timely help and perfect rotations - that's what contained MJ.

As far as LeBron's concerned, there's not the slightest history of physical play(hard fouls) having the remotest impact against him in his career. He is more equipped to handle that than any perimeter player in NBA history. The best defensive game plan against LeBron is still overloading his side of the court, shading hard and hoping his 2nd option(the jumper) isn't falling and he isn't being active without the ball - which is what happened in the 2nd half last night. He wasn't aggressive at all after an 'easy' first half, where Chicago mostly single-covered him, before switching their game plan entirely in the 2nd. His passiveness was his own worst enemy.

His complaining last night had more to do with him being the most disrespected star in the game today when it comes to getting fouls. LeBron just doesn't get the calls this year. 7 FTA per game for him is a joke, when he is easily driving more than he ever did in '11 and '12, but is attempting far fewer free throws. Imagine if he was officiated like Durant, Harden or heck, even Kobe, who takes more free throws too!

You really love Lebron, huh?
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Old 03-28-2013, 03:41 PM   #72
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Default Re: Bulls effectively use the "Jordan Rules" against LeBron James.

@Indianguy - Melo is the most disrespected. Kobe only takes more FTs because he takes more shots, Lebron has a higher FT rate than him.
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Old 03-28-2013, 03:43 PM   #73
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Default Re: Bulls effectively use the "Jordan Rules" against LeBron James.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Indian guy
Detroit is the most fundamentally sound defensive team I ever saw when it came to guarding MJ. I don't know where this notion that their game plan was built around beating him up comes from. I've seen every Bulls-Pistons game from 88-93 and that's just some bogus revisionist history. It makes Detroit sound like low IQ goons who didn't know how to play REAL basketball, when in fact, their ridiculously high IQ and defensive skill is why they had so much success against MJ to begin with. In Dumars, you easily had the best 1-on-1 defender MJ ever went up against(aided by hand-checking, of course). Nobody was better at keeping MJ in front of him. And when it came to rotating after providing help on MJ(and they did this all the time in '88 and '89), they had no peers. Even with all the doubles on MJ, it was amazing how few open shots Chicago's shooters generally got. The 88-90 Pistons are easily the most fundamentally sound defense MJ ever faced and that's 70% of the reason why he was so inconsistent against them from '88 to '90. The other 30% being his own stubbornness, because he was better off being a jump shooter (which is what happened in '91) against the schemes Detroit utilized against him, but MJ wanted to prove he could drive against them and that usually led to his inefficiency.

This notion that MJ got "pounded" any time he took it inside against Detroit is a humungous myth. Go and watch any of those games - that's not what was happening. It's actual defense - 1-on-1 D, timely help and perfect rotations - that's what contained MJ.

As far as LeBron's concerned, there's not the slightest history of physical play(hard fouls) having the remotest impact against him in his career. He is more equipped to handle that than any perimeter player in NBA history. The best defensive game plan against LeBron is still overloading his side of the court, shading hard and hoping his 2nd option(the jumper) isn't falling and he isn't being active without the ball - which is what happened in the 2nd half last night. He wasn't aggressive at all after an 'easy' first half, where Chicago mostly single-covered him, before switching their game plan entirely in the 2nd. His passiveness was his own worst enemy.

His complaining last night had more to do with him being the most disrespected star in the game today when it comes to getting fouls. LeBron just doesn't get the calls this year. 7 FTA per game for him is a joke, when he is easily driving more than he ever did in '11 and '12, but is attempting far fewer free throws. Imagine if he was officiated like Durant, Harden or heck, even Kobe, who takes more free throws too!



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Old 03-28-2013, 03:44 PM   #74
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Default Re: Bulls effectively use the "Jordan Rules" against LeBron James.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NumberSix
Yeah..... and the call got reversed.


Lol. I mean, Jesus Christ.


And that call should have been reversed because there was nothing there malicious. There was no horse-collar takedown, no clothesline, nothing whatsoever. Taj went after the ball and missed hitting Lebron on the shoulder. He didn't even follow through like he could have. I've seen 10x worse than that and the fact that Lebron got mad enough to try to purposely ram Boozer is ridiculous. It's like he expects defenders to let him waltz in the lane, give him a lovetap and so he can get the "And 1" and mug and flex to the crowd or some shit
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Old 03-28-2013, 03:53 PM   #75
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Default Re: Bulls effectively use the "Jordan Rules" against LeBron James.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chazzy
@Indianguy - Melo is the most disrespected. Kobe only takes more FTs because he takes more shots, Lebron has a higher FT rate than him.

Nah, Westbrook is.
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