MJ was an off-ball player since North Carolina - he was NEVER ball-dominant

[tontoz]

Jordan was definitely ball dominant. That is why they paired him with spot up shooters like Kerr and Paxon. He didnt like playing with BJ because BJ tried to play more like a pg.

Granted he was very good with the ball, but his selfishness was well known and a constant aggravation for his coaches. Collins used to cry that Jordan was the one who sabotaged their fast breaks because he refused to let go of the ball.

[ImKobe]

He played off-ball more in the 2nd 3-peat but he was definitely ball dominant in his earlier years when he averaged 32+ points and 6+ assists.

[bdreason]

80's MJ had one of the highest usage rates in the history of the sport.

[3ball]

80's MJ had one of the highest usage rates in the history of the sport.

It's amazing how dumb you guys all are about basketball.. Ball-dominance doesn't equal shot attempts you utterly dumb fu.cks

Ball-dominance equals how long you hold the ball, and Jordan held the ball less than guys like Lebron, Kobe, Harden or Westbrook - the reason he held the ball far less is because he didn't use live-dribbles as much as they did, and preferred to score via off-ball, triple-threat or post - see the OP to refresh your memory.

Also, Jordan had higher TS and ORtg than Bird, Kobe, Wade, and Lebron in the regular season and playoffs.. So he shot more AND had higher efficiency.. Again, that's what anyone would want of their favorite player - to shoot more at higher efficiency - to DO MORE.

[ImKobe]

It's amazing how dumb you guys all are about basketball.. Ball-dominance doesn't equal shot attempts you utterly dumb fu.cks

Ball-dominance equals how long you hold the ball, and Jordan held the ball less than guys like Lebron, Kobe, Harden or Westbrook - the reason he held the ball far less is because he didn't use live-dribbles as much as they did, and preferred to score via off-ball, triple-threat or post - see the OP to refresh your memory.

Also, Jordan had higher TS and ORtg than Bird, Kobe, Wade, and Lebron in the regular season and playoffs.. So he shot more AND had higher efficiency.. Again, that's what anyone would want of their favorite player - to shoot more at higher efficiency - to DO MORE.

Usg%
Usage Percentage (available since the 1977-78 season in the NBA); the formula is 100 * ((FGA + 0.44 * FTA + TOV) * (Tm MP / 5)) / (MP * (Tm FGA + 0.44 * Tm FTA + Tm TOV)). Usage percentage is an estimate of the percentage of team plays used by a player while he was on the floor.

Why are Jordan fans so defensive?

[3ball]

Why are Jordan fans so defensive?

By posting the usage formula, you've done confirmed how dumb you are - the formula shows that usage equals SHOT ATTEMPTS plus turnovers.. So usage measures shot attempts, and again: ball-dominance doesn't equal shot attempts.

Ball-dominance equals how long you hold the ball, and Jordan held the ball less than guys like Lebron, Kobe, Harden or Westbrook - the reason he held the ball far less is because he didn't use live-dribbles as much as they did, and preferred to score via off-ball, triple-threat or post - see the OP to refresh your memory.

Also, Jordan had higher TS and ORtg than Bird, Kobe, Wade, and Lebron in the regular season and playoffs.. So he shot more AND had higher efficiency.. Again, that's what anyone would want of their favorite player - to shoot more at higher efficiency - to DO MORE.

[ImKobe]

By posting the usage formula, you've done confirmed how dumb you are - the formula shows that usage equals SHOT ATTEMPTS plus turnovers - so usage measures shot attempts dumbass, and ball-dominance doesn't equal shot attempts.

Ball-dominance equals how long you hold the ball (not shot attempts), and Jordan held the ball less than guys like Lebron, Kobe, Harden or Westbrook - the reason he held the ball far less is because he didn't use live-dribbles as much as they did, and preferred to score via off-ball, triple-threat or post - see the OP to refresh your memory.

Also, Jordan had higher TS and ORtg than Bird, Kobe, Wade, and Lebron in the regular season and playoffs.. So he shot more AND had higher efficiency.. Again, that's what anyone would want of their favorite player - to shoot more at higher efficiency - to DO MORE.

By the way I wasn't even the poster you were quoting

and all he said was that Jordan had one of the highest usage ratings, which he did.

And again, why are Jordan stans so defensive?

Why is it a bad thing to be a ball dominant player when you're winning?

Maybe you should find another player to stan because you have to resort to personal insults to get a debate out of someone because no one cares about Jordan's greatness since it has been discussed a million times.

And if you watched Kobe play under Phil in the triangle you'd know he played a lot off-ball as well. Durant also played off-ball mostly this season as Russ was the main decision maker on the team.

[ImKobe]

parroting the same reply over 10 posts, resorting to personal insults when no one has a problem with MJ

might just ignore list this senile old man

[LakersForlife]

Dude sit the f down.jordan was great.but it was 20 years ago..stop making him relevant in this forum..we will remember him but its over he is not playing.all your stats and bullshits are just theory that can never be proven.instead use your time finding a cure for cancer

[3ball]

Why is it a bad thing to be a ball dominant player when you're winning?

Because Jordan wasn't ball-dominant.

[COLOR="Navy"]He won more than any other perimeter player because he WASN'T ball-dominant..
[/COLOR]

and all he said was that Jordan had one of the highest usage ratings, which he did.

Usage has nothing to do with the thread - this thread is about ball-dominance and ball-dominance doesn't have anything to do with usage (shot attempts).

And again, why are Jordan stans so defensive?

Because there's no reason to give dumbness and misinformation a pass - ball-dominance equals how long you hold the ball (not shot attempts), and Jordan held the ball much less than point-guard-style players like Lebron, Harden or Westbrook.. Consequently, he won far more - his off-ball game fostered superior teamwork and brand of basketball.

The reason he held the ball far less is because he didn't use live-dribbles as much as they did, and preferred to score via off-ball, triple-threat or post - see the OP to refresh your memory.

And if you want to talk about shot attempts - Jordan had higher TS and ORtg than Bird, Kobe, Wade, and Lebron in the regular season and playoffs.. So he shot more AND had higher efficiency.. Again, that's what anyone would want of their favorite player - to shoot more at higher efficiency - to DO MORE..

[eliteballer]

Uh Jordan's bread and butter his entire career was to iso on one side of the floor..

[oarabbus]

Because Jordan wasn't ball-dominant.

[COLOR="Navy"]He won more than any other perimeter player because he WASN'T ball-dominant..
[/COLOR]


Usage has nothing to do with the thread - this thread is about ball-dominance and ball-dominance doesn't have anything to do with usage (shot attempts).

Yes. There is absolutely no correlation between shot attempts and ball-domination

A statistician 3ball is not

[3ball]

Yes. There is absolutely no correlation between shot attempts and ball-domination

If JJ Redick shoots 30 catch-and-shoot jumpers in a game, does that mean he dominated the ball?

Obviously not - ball-dominance equals how long you hold the ball (not shot attempts), and Jordan held the ball much less than point-guard-style players like Lebron, Harden or Westbrook.. Consequently, he won far more - his off-ball game fostered superior teamwork and brand of basketball.

The reason he held the ball far less is because he didn't use live-dribbles as much as they did - instead, he preferred to score via off-ball, triple-threat or post - see the OP to refresh your memory.

[3ball]

Uh Jordan's bread and butter his entire career was to iso on one side of the floor..

Let's get specific.. If he clearouts was his bread and butter, than it should be easy to find games where he ran a lot of them - so how many clearouts did he run during his famous 63 point game?... Or his 69 point game?

Almost NONE... So you're just going along with an ignorant false narrative... Most of his points were scored in other ways - this is a fact - he ran clearouts maybe once or twice per game.

Otoh, there's never been a player that used clearouts more frequently and overtly than Lebron in the 2015 Finals - this is a fact - if you disagree, when did another player run MORE clearouts?.. I'll wait..