ISH's #11 Player of Alltime

[Heavincent]

Holy crap. You are truly a moron. Carried a team? Moses/Chuck/ and Wade had better supporting casts than what Kobe had in 08,09, or 2010.

Seriously. No business being there? Those Sixers teams were routinely winning 57+ games and making the Finals before Moses got there. Chuck was on a ridiculously stacked team (Majerle/Ceballos/Ainge/Kevin Johnson/Tom Chambers/Dumas) that had one of the best guards in the league and was winning 50+ games every year before he got there.

KG had two excellent guards. That team won 58 teams and had the #1 seed. How did they have "no business" being in the WCF?

Wade had the best center in the league, the best back-up big/excellent defender in Alonzo, and a bunch of excellent role-players. The Heat were among the favorites before the season.

"No business being there".

LMAO.

Even just going by the numbers, Kobe's 30/6/6/2/58% TS in 2008 is better than all those runs, and so is 30/6/5/2/57% TS/27 PER in 09.

You are a ****king moron.

Well said

[jacobgoindum]

Holy crap. You are truly a moron. Carried a team? Moses/Chuck/ and Wade had better supporting casts than what Kobe had in 08,09, or 2010.

Seriously. No business being there? Those Sixers teams were routinely winning 57+ games and making the Finals before Moses got there. Chuck was on a ridiculously stacked team (Majerle/Ceballos/Ainge/Kevin Johnson/Tom Chambers/Dumas) that had one of the best guards in the league and was winning 50+ games every year before he got there.

KG had two excellent guards. That team won 58 teams and had the #1 seed. How did they have "no business" being in the WCF?

Wade had the best center in the league, the best back-up big/excellent defender in Alonzo, and a bunch of excellent role-players. The Heat were among the favorites before the season.

"No business being there".

LMAO.

Even just going by the numbers, Kobe's 30/6/6/2/58% TS in 2008 is better than all those runs, and so is 30/6/5/2/57% TS/27 PER in 09.

You are a ****king moron.

[triangleoffense]

I strongly disagree about Barkley, Ewing and especially Karl Malone being as talented as Hakeem and Kareem.

As far as Russell, you can't really separate him from the rings, he's much tougher to compare because when it comes to winning, he's so far ahead of the rest. And it's even tougher because his skill set likely doesn't lead to anywhere near the same results in Hakeem's era for example, but he's also probably the most effective player relative to the era they played in.

I'm not forgetting about Lebron's failures either. But again, once you get past the top 10 players, you're not seeing players who were any more dominant individually than Lebron and have multiple titles as the man, some who get mentioned in the 11-15 range don't have 1 title as the man, or any titles period.

Look at Karl Malone. I respect his longevity, but I'd take my chances with Lebron over Karl anyday. Why? Because I watched both and know that Lebron is a better player, and both have given reasons to question their mentality. All Karl's longevity got was more years where he didn't win a ring.

Ok the Malone/Barkley to Hakeem/Kareem argument was a bad example but my point was is that winning and the mental aspect of the game are oftentimes the tiebreakers in determining the hall of famers from the legends of the game, players who rank among the best and the best. If you've ever read Simmon's book of basketball he makes a good point about there being a pyramid system for ranking hall of famers and that it's hard to seperate 2nd from 3rd but easier to seperate players into different "echelons". To give you another example of what I mean just take a look at both Lebron's and Kobe's careers, to date. It's pretty apparent that Lebron has just as much talent as Kobe, arguably more but if Lebron finishes his career with 0 titles you would undeniably put Kobe higher on an all time list and also higher on the "echelon-pyramid" system, despite Lebron arguably having more talent than Kobe.

And also I would have to disagree with your point about how there is a lack of players outside the 11-15 range who have won the title as the man. West, Hondo, Malone (Moses), Dr. J, Mikan and even Wade and Barry come to mind. If Lebron finishes with 0 rings, or all of his came at the expenses of Wade getting Finals MVP would you really put Lebron over any of those players?