Obsession with stats?

[Quickening]

Advanced stats, per etc etc, I am from England, and we don't really bother with stats when stating who we think are the best player in footbal/soccer for example, so is this part of American culture or is it specific to basketball, I don't follow other sports in America.

[BrickingStar]

Basketball = Soccer/Football

England National Football Team = Not a disgrace to football

[imdaman99]

stats are overrated. watch the game sometimes guys.

[DMAVS41]

It should never be all or nothing, but individual biases just come into play too often unless some objective measures are used.

And a lot of time the biases are things we aren't even aware of.

I argued for years on here that Kobe actually doesn't excel in game winning situations to near the extent his fans claimed. We went back and forth and back and forth...and then the stats came out and ended it. Because they are objective measures and once you tell someone that their "guy" shoots 30% in those situations while other players shoot much better....that's it.

So in a case like that, stats are great.

Where they get poor, is when someone would want to use a single stat to quantify how good a player is. Basketball has been and always will be a mixture of art and science. There are certain things that simple stats can't quantify.

For example, Dirk's impact on the floor on offense without him doing anything but standing in the corner can be hugely beneficial to a team. Sure, you might capture that in offensive efficiency with and without him, but when comparing players...usually stuff like that doesn't come up.

So you have to be careful to try to define a player overall just by stats. But using a stat like ft% or game winning shot % to debate who is better at those specific things is fine.

[DMAVS41]

stats are overrated. watch the game sometimes guys.

why not do both. because you watch a game differently than others and all that would lead to is a battle of opinions with very little objectivity.

you have built in biases that you aren't even aware of...everyone does.

[BrickingStar]

OP is retarded if he seriously can't see the difference between both sports when measuring players by stats and he's lying to himself if stats aren't brought up when determining who's the better player in a serious debate when it comes to soccer/football

[tmacattack33]

PER is just a combination of stats.

It doesn't tell u who the best player is, it tells u who has the best stats (and even that is up for debate...who is to say that one assist equals one rebound or whatever PER uses).

[TimmyDuncan]

Basketball is really well suited for stats.
You have tons of points in a game, clear actions having impact on the game (rbd, block etc...) that occurs plenty of time in game

Soccer on the other hand has not all of that so we are left with the global impression

[lilgodfather1]

This is a forum dedicated to sports, basketball in specific, not acting. Although European culture has impacted basketball in terms of flopping, so kuddos to soccer for impacting a real sport .

As for why stats are so important in sports, it's simple. In a sport with such a limited amount of players on the court at one time their impact can be measured much more effectively. In a sport like real football where there's offense and defense your impact on the game is harder to measure through stats.

[ZenMaster]

Advanced stats, per etc etc, I am from England, and we don't really bother with stats when stating who we think are the best player in footbal/soccer for example, so is this part of American culture or is it specific to basketball, I don't follow other sports in America.

But doesn't the player who scores the most goals make the most money?

[QuebecBaller]

player mix/highlights on youtube >>> games >>> stats

[madmax]

But doesn't the player who scores the most goals make the most money?

it's very subjective again...it depends on the level of competition and matchups, since there are so many different competitions in soccer (cups, league championships and etc). NBA is a very good at measuring stats, since it's a closed league with the same rules and same talent level throughout

[ILLsmak]

why not do both. because you watch a game differently than others and all that would lead to is a battle of opinions with very little objectivity.

you have built in biases that you aren't even aware of...everyone does.

This is untrue. ALMOST everyone does. And for an "unbiased" person, it would come down to something like... overvaluing one aspect of the game that they feel is important. Like, say, pick and roll defense. You could say X player can't guard shit because he can't defend a pick and roll. But then someone would say BUT HE GETS 3 STEALS AND 3 BLOCKS. Nothing is proved on either side.

Rebounding is also really out of wack. I don't really care about overall rebounding numbers. Plenty of dudes get like 6+ bullshit rebounds a game. A rebound, to me, is something you have to fight for. That's why I believe offensive rebounds are a much better way to measure, but if you are missing your own shot and rebounding it, again, that's misleading.

The ability to look at something and understand it is extremely rare. We have a tendency to break everything down to smaller pieces, but you can't always do that. A stat like PER is a failure because it doesn't account for people TRYING to be efficient at the expense of their team. Most people can tell when a player is good. He just shines above all of the others. that's how you can tell through a lot of mix tapes of players who is really good... because most mix tapes look the same, doing the same shit... but you can still observe differing nuances.

Nuances can not be measured, mentality can not be measured... by stats.

Stats are like history. It is the result. Not what happened. If that makes sense...

-Smak

[chips93]

stats never lie, its only when people (intentionally or not) misuse them, or ignore context, that you get into trouble.

[Rubio2Gasol]

Hollinger Generation.

With that being said, stats in basketball are mildly useful, unlike stats in football.