Leadership: Scottie Pippen's teammates on Pippen as a team leader

[mehyaM24]

97_Bulls and Mehya,

In your opinions why do the MJ thought police go into every Pippen thread to bash the guy who made Mike a 6x champion?

honestly? i think its a fear of the unknown. jordan fans are just doing what the media did in his heyday: push him down our throats. jordan's legend ("killer instinct", "will to win", "assassin") seems to be more of a focus in these threads than his actual play.

jordan fans DONT KNOW about pippen, because most of them were too young to watch those bulls teams. many of them hopped on the bandwagon in the late 90's, bought his shoes, couldn't care less about the bulls, and just wanted...to be like mike. which was the "fad" back then.

the media pushes jordan- and thats ALL they know.

[Roundball_Rock]

Great points. They never dispute what is being said. They just diminish Pippen in a generic way or cherry pick in a misleading way the worst aspects of his 17 year record. Notice that in this thread, like in the previous thread, no one is disputing Pippen's leadership role. The few attempts we have seen have been exposed: Pippen was said to not hold teammates accountable (his teammates confirm that he did hold them--and himself--accountable) and Pippen was said to not be a captain (in fact Pippen was a co-captain along with MJ and Cartwright). This is partly why they avoid substance: they get exposed too often on substance.

push him down our throats. jordan's legend ("killer instinct", "will to win", "assassin") seems to be more of a focus in these threads than his actual play.

True. I noticed MJ was listed 1st in the "greatest impact" and "toughest to guard" threads. He is listed as #1 in every thing, even dick size according to these people. I remember when a MJ stan a few years ago said MJ>KAJ in the post.

jordan fans DONT KNOW about pippen, because most of them were too young to watch that bulls team. many of them hopped on the bandwagon in the late 90's, bought his shoes, couldn't care less about the bulls, and just wanted...to be like mike. which was the "fad" back then.

A lot of them never even watched the Bulls. They came of age in the 2000's and jumped on the MJ bandwagon because it is the biggest, coolest bandwagon of them all. This is why MJ stans, as illustrated in this thread, struggle so much to fathom why a player like Pippen had/has fans. After all, they jumped on the biggest bandwagon going so why didn't Pippen fans? Notice that they grasp LeBron and Kobe having fans but struggled mightily with Pippen, even though Pippen had the 2nd or 3rd largest fan base of any 90's player. He probably was 3rd in the 90's but Shaq's popularity has faded in a way that Pippen's has not. You see a lot more Pippen fans online than Shaq fans.

[97 bulls]

Seriously. How was I hating in this thread?

Roundball Rock has spent his entire summer in front of a computer screen attempting to throw agenda based shade with threads towards MJ EVERYDAY ... and continually sucking Pippen's horse sized dong with "Pippen was liked by teammates, and was a leader" threads. Why? It's redundant.

@97 bulls

No where have I hated on Pippen. He's the greatest sidekick ever, and the 2nd best player on my favorite sports franchise. The end. He's not better than Magic, Bird, LeBron, Kobe, Wade, and especially not Jordan. Wasn't more of a leader than Mike.

Players would rather play for Mike Brown than Bobby Knight. He's more likable. Does that make Brown the better coach, or leader? Hell no. All you softies sound the exact same.

I guess General Patton wasn't a good leader either, because he was a bad ass. And didn't cater to mentally weak people.

MJ was on the court leader through talent, will power, mental toughness, and perseverance. While Scottie was busy getting crippling headaches in key moments, or removing himself from playoff games to selfishly pout. That is NOT a true leader. He was "good cop" second in command, and locker room guy.

They're all professional men, MJ shouldn't be having to be buddy-buddy with them in order to get the best out of them on the court. They leaned on MJ's mental toughness and will power more than they did Pippen's likability when the going got TOUGH.

You're totally missing the point. It's not a matter of what method of leading works. I feel it greatly depends personel. You feel that berating is the ONLY way a person can lead. And through being what you call a "bad ass". Thats not true. There's been countless people that have led through teaching and encouragement. How would you want to be looked at? Feared? Or respected? And heres the difference.

If youre respected, people will go through a fire for you. If youre feared, they will be looking to set you on fire.

Its no secret that Bobby Knight would not be a good coach in the NBA. He's even said it. Mike Brown is a better NBA coach than Knight.

Imma list some coaches and you tell me in your opinion where theyd fall under. Fear or Respected. Dean Smith, John Wooden, Red Aeurbach, Mike Kreyzewski, Phil Jackson, Greg Popvich. How about PJ Carlisimo, Bob Knight, Jerry Sloan.

[97 bulls]

at the usual MJ stans entering en masse to diminish Pippen and express their outrage at Pippen getting any credit. Where are the hypocrites who issue lectures when MJ is attacked yet remain utterly silent when MJ fans, as they do in every thread, go after Pippen?

Note that Pippen fans don't invade every MJ thread en masse (i.e. the thread about MJ scoring 59--let me guess, we don't need it because everybody knows MJ was a great scorer? Oh, that "logic" does not apply to Mike, right?) like MJ fans do with every single Pippen thread ever posted.



They were CO-captains. More false information from MJ stans. This is exactly why such threads are necessary in the first place.

Funny thing is. You posted the quotes from the Bulls coaches saying they were co-captains. I believe it was Jordan, Pippen, and Cartwright for the first three-peat. And Jordan and Pippen for the second.

At some point it just becomes ignorant.

[97 bulls]

Scottie was the nice middle man form of leadership between the captain (Jordan) and the rest of the soldiers. That's just the brutal honest truth. Important? Yes, but not the most important. He wasn't "THE" leader of the Bulls. No amount of twisting, or nice quotes of how people liked him prove otherwise.

Lol. Hes posting quotes. Quote quote, quote, quote, quotes. How is he twisting anything?

[Roundball_Rock]

You're totally missing the point. It's not a matter of what method of leading works. I feel it greatly depends personel. You feel that berating is the ONLY way a person can lead. And through being what you call a "bad ass". Thats not true. There's been countless people that have led through teaching and encouragement. How would you want to be looked at? Feared? Or respected? And heres the difference.

If youre respected, people will go through a fire for you. If youre feared, they will be looking to set you on fire.

Its no secret that Bobby Knight would not be a good coach in the NBA. He's even said it. Mike Brown is a better NBA coach than Knight.

Imma list some coaches and you tell me in your opinion where theyd fall under. Fear or Respected. Dean Smith, John Wooden, Red Aeurbach, Mike Kreyzewski, Phil Jackson, Greg Popvich. How about PJ Carlisimo, Bob Knight, Jerry Sloan.

Exactly. People like SS think the only way you can hold people accountable is by being a jerk. That simply is not true.

"If youre respected, people will go through a fire for you. If youre feared, they will be looking to set you on fire."

Yup. I learned that myself. When I took the "bad ass be up to my standards, period" approach to leadership the latter was the case, even though I was universally admired and respected as the most talented member of the team; when I acted in a civil, helpful, mentoring manner many of them same people changed to being willing to walk through a fire for me. I was even invited to one's wedding--this after clashing repeatedly with her under my original approach during our first year. Why? She saw that I went out of my way to help her, provide guidance and wanted her to do well. I encouraged her when she was down, called her out when she was not doing what she was supposed to--but she fundamentally saw I was rooting for her, not looking down on her (as she viewed me as doing during our first year).

[G.O.A.T]

I have to be honest Roundball, I read this whole thread with the exception of the people I have on ignore (unless you quoted them) and I really didn't see anything to justify this ridculous overreaction on your part.

No one said anything even remotely demeaning of Pippen. One guy didn't mention he was co-captain for 4 of the 6 titles and you act like he's on some sort of pro-Jordan conspiracy crusade.

Calling Scottie Pippen the greatest sidekick ever is a compliment, not an insult and not misinformation. That's what he was for 90% of his career, a sidekick, and the best there ever was at it.

No one has ever argued that he wasn't the teams second best player, no one wit a concept of the Bulls teams has ever argued that he wasn't well liked by teammates and considered highly-coach-able.

What in the world is going on to make you think people are out to get Pip?

Edit: Also it should not be lost that I really appreciate you consolidating all of this info into one spot. That's hard work and it does not go unnoticed.

[97 bulls]

Lol. Gotta love Swish. He just negged me for my posts. At least he is man enough to leave his name.

[mehyaM24]

Lol. Gotta love Swish. He just negged me for my posts. At least he is man enough to leave his name.

not that i care about "negs" (you guys are too sensitive), but i have a few of them in a thread i created yesterday about "GOAT teams". two of them were nameless and within seconds of each other. lol

ISH actually frowns upon discussing...basketball.

[Roundball_Rock]

Lol. Gotta love Swish. He just negged me for my posts. At least he is man enough to leave his name.

Believe it or not I like Swish. He gives OSB (the banned former Loki) a run for his money as the biggest MJ stan/Pippen hater but Swish posts with passion, says a lot of interesting things and does not back down from debates. I am not sure which one hates Pippen more.

ing they were co-captains. I believe it was Jordan, Pippen, and Cartwright for the first three-peat. And Jordan and Pippen for the second.

It was MJ and Cartwright for the first three-peat. Pippen became a captain in 1994 and remained one throughout his time in Chicago, although he was a leader prior to 94' as Paxson and others attest to. I am not sure if he officially was the captain in Portland but he was universally regarded as the team's leader. Leaders gonna lead.

ISH actually frowns upon discussing...basketball.

What is troubling is the attempts to dictate the parameters of discussion. What MJ stans do is not novel. It is a time honored technique: you send a bunch of ringers onto a message board, have them attack the position of the OP and make it seem as if there is a groundswell of opposition for the OP/support for your position/candidate. It happens all the time during campaigns. The idea is to sway the people on the fence or the people who are the most soft and hence most likely to go with the crowd. This is what they do: in every Pippen thread you will have 6-8 MJ stans diminish Pippen (Samuari, OldSchool, Soundwave, Andgar to name a few regulars), attack anyone who is pro-Pip to give the impression that is the majority view. Since MJ stans outnumber Pippen stans, that gives them an advantage in every thread.

[juju151111]

I have to be honest Roundball, I read this whole thread with the exception of the people I have on ignore (unless you quoted them) and I really didn't see anything to justify this ridculous overreaction on your part.

No one said anything even remotely demeaning of Pippen. One guy didn't mention he was co-captain for 4 of the 6 titles and you act like he's on some sort of pro-Jordan conspiracy crusade.

Calling Scottie Pippen the greatest sidekick ever is a compliment, not an insult and not misinformation. That's what he was for 90% of his career, a sidekick, and the best there ever was at it.

No one has ever argued that he wasn't the teams second best player, no one wit a concept of the Bulls teams has ever argued that he wasn't well liked by teammates and considered highly-coach-able.

What in the world is going on to make you think people are out to get Pip?

This is why you don't have to argue with Round. He knows what he says is BS too. He just love instigating with his threads. He won't say anything, but knows mayhem retarded ass or someone else will bring up Mj in a bad light and then Mj fans will react. Then round comes back see look Mj fans disrupt ing Pippen thread. You made the thread to argue with MY fans bro stop pretending.

[juju151111]

Lol. Gotta love Swish. He just negged me for my posts. At least he is man enough to leave his name.

Lmao Negging people is stupid and you never say anything that's worth Negging.

[Roundball_Rock]

You made the thread to argue with MY fans bro stop pretending.

Pretty much every thread I make, whether it is about the 90's Bulls or something else, is the result of something I see in a discussion here. Sometimes it will be an attempt to respond; sometimes an attempt to put facts out to make the discussion better; sometimes it will be to raise questions; sometimes a combination of all these things. The Pippen leadership threads are a direct response to numerous attacks on Pippen's leadership. That is why the faux outrage 2 weeks ago was comical. One guy mentioned me commenting on Pippen's leadership numerous times preceding that thread. What he failed to grasp is every one of those comments was in response (that is what "quote" indicates) to another poster criticizing or questioning Pippen's leadership.

How is what "I say" BS? I didn't say anything in the OP. I posted quotes--a deliberate adjustment to the thread 2 weeks ago which I prefaced with some commentary.

[Asukal]

Yes OP is right, Jordan was the sidekick. Pippen was the leader and the true mvp of the 90s Bulls team. This is why Pippen should be the billionare and Jordan bankrupt. Good job OP, you have a legitimate argument against the GOAT.

[Round Mound]

Already Knew This. Nothing New To Me.

I Was Witness To Pippen in 93-94. Infact, I Told All My Friends That He Was Going To Be a Top 10 Player in the Game With Ease. He Was Easily The Best SF of the 90s (close by Grant Hill).