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Old 06-28-2013, 12:46 PM   #46
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Default Re: Draft 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rose
My immediate reaction on Snell is:

He's a smooth player, but lazy. Has defensive tools but kinda meh. okay shooter.

I just assumed Franklin. Maybe Hardaway Jr.


But Snell doesn't really fit the Thibs style.
He has a 7 foot wingspan, defensive potential, and can shoot...why not?
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Old 06-28-2013, 12:53 PM   #47
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Default Re: Draft 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by methusala
Thin frame won't add much size or strength.

Haven't seen much of him, but first reaction was, 'huh?'
I don't think he can add much size but he can get much stronger than he currently is. Remember, KD couldn't bench the bar his rookie year lol.

Check out these highlights:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtDFnv2T5UM

13 straight points to lead his team to the MWC title? I think his success is incumbent on his work. He may be a solid player--I truly think it is possible. I remember I wasn't too high on Taj or Jimmy when the Bulls drafted them but they turned out great. I'm going to be rooting for young Snell.
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Old 06-28-2013, 03:13 PM   #48
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Default Re: Draft 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Go Getter
He has a 7 foot wingspan, defensive potential, and can shoot...why not?
Chad Ford really hit the nail on the head.

"Analysis: The Bulls really wanted a swingman and selected Snell, a workout wonder. Because Reggie Bullock, Allen Crabbe and Tim Hardaway Jr. were on the board, all three of whom have better track records, I was a little surprised that Snell was the pick. He might have more upside, but his lack of consistency on both ends is concerning. The Bulls filled a need, but I don't think they got the best guy to do it."


It's not a bad pick, just more of a why? type thing.
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Old 06-28-2013, 03:24 PM   #49
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Default Re: Draft 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rose
Chad Ford really hit the nail on the head.

"Analysis: The Bulls really wanted a swingman and selected Snell, a workout wonder. Because Reggie Bullock, Allen Crabbe and Tim Hardaway Jr. were on the board, all three of whom have better track records, I was a little surprised that Snell was the pick. He might have more upside, but his lack of consistency on both ends is concerning. The Bulls filled a need, but I don't think they got the best guy to do it."


It's not a bad pick, just more of a why? type thing.

Again, how will ne not fit?

Idk if all three have better track records, Tim Hardaway was wildly inconsistent at times, and I figure Snell was the best that they worked out. Leading college in pull up J percentage is not anything ot sneeze at and we need shooting. Pow.

plus, he has Pippen-like wingspan...in this system, if he works on his body, he can be a Leonard type guy with range. Sounds good to me and makes Deng expendable so we can get a 2, 4, or backup 5.
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Old 06-28-2013, 04:02 PM   #50
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Default Re: Draft 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rose
Chad Ford really hit the nail on the head.

"Analysis: The Bulls really wanted a swingman and selected Snell, a workout wonder. Because Reggie Bullock, Allen Crabbe and Tim Hardaway Jr. were on the board, all three of whom have better track records, I was a little surprised that Snell was the pick. He might have more upside, but his lack of consistency on both ends is concerning. The Bulls filled a need, but I don't think they got the best guy to do it."


It's not a bad pick, just more of a why? type thing.


Chad Ford shouldn't be writing about consistency. Snell is one of the more consistent players in the draft. If he has one quality that anyone can clearly point out, it is his consistency.

Anyhow, I linked to my full report on Snell earlier in the post.
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Old 06-28-2013, 08:04 PM   #51
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Default Re: Draft 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Go Getter
Again, how will ne not fit?

Idk if all three have better track records, Tim Hardaway was wildly inconsistent at times, and I figure Snell was the best that they worked out. Leading college in pull up J percentage is not anything ot sneeze at and we need shooting. Pow.

plus, he has Pippen-like wingspan...in this system, if he works on his body, he can be a Leonard type guy with range. Sounds good to me and makes Deng expendable so we can get a 2, 4, or backup 5.
He has a reputation of being lazy. It's a team of hard workers, he's got the wingspan and maybe he'll have the body to be a good defender, but right now he's not. Does he fill a need? Sure. He's a solid shooter, has a nice ball IQ with his ability to score off screens. He's a good passer, and has some tools. He's a fit for the time of player we need, sure. But a Thibs player? he's got a ways to go most likely. That's why I don't think he's a fit.

But is he as good at shooting as Bullock? No.
Does he have the scoring ability of Hardaway? no.
Scoring/shooting ability of Crabbe? no.
or hell if you want to talk defense: defense of Franklin? Not even close.

I don't think the pick was bad, just kinda shocking. I get that he can be better than all the guys taken over him, there's just guys that were on the board that are already better at doing things that are needed. He's got the best ceiling of the guys that were still on the board, but he'll also have the most work to do compared to other guys.

I think he can get there, because for a lazy guy this is the right team to be on, Noah, Thibs, Taj, Kirk, Jimmy are all gonna be on his ass to make hustle plays. But there's lots of lazy players that don't make it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crystallas
Chad Ford shouldn't be writing about consistency. Snell is one of the more consistent players in the draft. If he has one quality that anyone can clearly point out, it is his consistency.

Anyhow, I linked to my full report on Snell earlier in the post.
Let me start off by saying I enjoyed your article and thought it was a solid one.

But the guy has a reputation not just with ESPN, but the draftexpress article I linked and nbadraft.net (lol). Here's an SI one

Last edited by Rose : 06-28-2013 at 08:07 PM.
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Old 06-28-2013, 09:47 PM   #52
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Default Re: Draft 2013

Initially I was surprised when Tony Snell was the pick because going in I liked Hardaway Jr and Reggie Bullock more and they were both still on the board.

After doing a little more research and thinking about it some I could see why the Bulls organization and the coaching staff would lean towards Snell.

The kid is a shooter. Period. Very smooth and almost picture perfect stroke. Potential to be an elite shooter. Also important to note is that he's a good shooter in a lot of different circumstances. He can shoot off the dribble. He can spot up. He's excellent on curls and off of screens. Moves well without the ball to get to an open spot. He can play both SG and SF offensively and defensively. He dribbles better than what people give him credit for and he's also a better than average passer. Defensively he has the length/wingspan and quickness to be a versatile defender and fit in well with our team defense schemes.

He needs to add some muscle but he has the physical tools. He should get into the weight room with Jimmy.

I think the Bulls ultimately chose him because he has the potential to be a much better defender than Hardaway Jr and Bullock and we know how much Thibs and his staff values defense. Although primarily being a shooter he can turn into a very good defender. He can turn into the next Kawhi Leanord which is a player he's getting compared to a lot but i can see that happening.

A lot of the issues with him are mental. He's not assertive at all times. Needs to be more focused and play harder for the entirety of the game. That's something he knows he needs to improve on. With that being said with Thibs the staff and our roster it's the perfect environment for him to be in and learn from. Being on our team will get the best out of him.

Love the pick and see him turning into a very good player here.
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Old 06-28-2013, 10:58 PM   #53
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Default Re: Draft 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rose
Let me start off by saying I enjoyed your article and thought it was a solid one.

But the guy has a reputation not just with ESPN, but the draftexpress article I linked and nbadraft.net (lol). Here's an SI one

Thanks for the kind words. But I'm not backing down. Tony Snell is very consistent. The issue is scouting a multiple position player who faces multiple matchups on consistency. And for all of the roles Snell played, he was very consistent. Maybe I can get you on my side here, and point out one issue with these armchair scouts(yes, I'm one too ), they try to set up a baseline criteria by position, and not the challenges they have faced. When you want to measure consistency for a player that shifts from guard to forward(IMO the biggest gap in player roles), you have to follow progression from year to year, and how they adjust from first meetings to second meetings within their conference. What's amazing, is Snell was going from easy matchups to part-time matchups against the #1 pick in Bennett(3 times in his final year), and Snell was able to play his roles in all situations, as well as find room for elevation. The way he progressed shows his trend-lines moving normal as far as production, to steadily increasing in the last month of the year. Also factor in that he is not good at creating his own shots on offense, so if his teammates aren't finding him open, he's forcing a lot of shots.

Snell went on to land pre-draft workouts with a few teams, and was called back for each one. All of which, his results were consistent with his initial workout. We know his shooting is consistent, his footwork is consistent, and everything he does within the roles he has been asked of to be consistent, then I would think that makes him consistent. And when his box-score numbers aren't consistent, you can track most of his struggles within the matchups. He isn't perfect as far as being consistent, but in this draft, he is one of the most consistent players. Our issue is developing him so he has a broader set of skills, which will give him better options on the court.


Something I should have added to the article. New Mexico also had distracted coaches. Alford(whom deserves a shot at UCLA) was targeted by bigger programs all year. The guy they replaced him with, Craig Neal, was their big x-o's guy, Craig Neal, schemes a lot of baseline style offense. However, Alford was still the playcaller in the Snell's first two seasons and he was a big swing-style offense play caller. That is a big change for any player to deal with. I think Snell did a pretty good job of it, mainly because the baseline style requires pieces that New Mexico did not have.
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Old 06-29-2013, 02:55 AM   #54
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Default Re: Draft 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crystallas
Thanks for the kind words. But I'm not backing down. Tony Snell is very consistent. The issue is scouting a multiple position player who faces multiple matchups on consistency. And for all of the roles Snell played, he was very consistent. Maybe I can get you on my side here, and point out one issue with these armchair scouts(yes, I'm one too ), they try to set up a baseline criteria by position, and not the challenges they have faced. When you want to measure consistency for a player that shifts from guard to forward(IMO the biggest gap in player roles), you have to follow progression from year to year, and how they adjust from first meetings to second meetings within their conference. What's amazing, is Snell was going from easy matchups to part-time matchups against the #1 pick in Bennett(3 times in his final year), and Snell was able to play his roles in all situations, as well as find room for elevation. The way he progressed shows his trend-lines moving normal as far as production, to steadily increasing in the last month of the year. Also factor in that he is not good at creating his own shots on offense, so if his teammates aren't finding him open, he's forcing a lot of shots.

Snell went on to land pre-draft workouts with a few teams, and was called back for each one. All of which, his results were consistent with his initial workout. We know his shooting is consistent, his footwork is consistent, and everything he does within the roles he has been asked of to be consistent, then I would think that makes him consistent. And when his box-score numbers aren't consistent, you can track most of his struggles within the matchups. He isn't perfect as far as being consistent, but in this draft, he is one of the most consistent players. Our issue is developing him so he has a broader set of skills, which will give him better options on the court.


Something I should have added to the article. New Mexico also had distracted coaches. Alford(whom deserves a shot at UCLA) was targeted by bigger programs all year. The guy they replaced him with, Craig Neal, was their big x-o's guy, Craig Neal, schemes a lot of baseline style offense. However, Alford was still the playcaller in the Snell's first two seasons and he was a big swing-style offense play caller. That is a big change for any player to deal with. I think Snell did a pretty good job of it, mainly because the baseline style requires pieces that New Mexico did not have.
You bring up some good points in your second and third paragraphs. I didn't think about those. I might try and see if I can find his games versus Bennett.
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Old 06-29-2013, 03:08 AM   #55
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Default Re: Draft 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rose
You bring up some good points in your second and third paragraphs. I didn't think about those. I might try and see if I can find his games versus Bennett.


http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/...-schedule.html
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