Wade/Bron vs. Jordan/Pippen (statistics request)

[97 bulls]

rebounding
Pippen > Jordan

assists
pippen > jordan

defense
pippen > jordan

overall
pippen > jordan?

Lol jordan showed his versitility in 88 whn he avg 32/8/8. Onece pippen arrived putting up those kind of number weren't needed. It wasn't like he couldn't.

[97 bulls]

And, it's not like Wade is a slouch defensively.

And pippens no slouch offensively either.

[canefandynasty]

Lol jordan showed his versitility in 88 whn he avg 32/8/8. Onece pippen arrived putting up those kind of number weren't needed. It wasn't like he couldn't.

And Wade hasn't shown versatility? What the heck is your point?

[TheMan]

Passing, rebounding and defense Pippen>Wade

scoring Wade>Pippen

[jrong]

He's not the same caliber as Wade, either ...

Exactly. Pippen was a 21/7/7 player with or without Jordan. That's admirable consistency, but Wade put up 30/5/7.5 without his generation's supposed Jordan. No comparison whatsoever.

Also, because I know the "defense" argument is about to be raised, there's no way Pippen would be as an effective defender in the non-handchecking era. (That's called a counter-intuitive, my friends. Everyone says perimeter scorers are aided by the lack of handchecking today. It follows, then, that perimeter defenders in the handcheck-era were aided by the freedom to handcheck.)

[jrong]

Passing, rebounding and defense Pippen>Wade

scoring Wade>Pippen

Not a chance. Wade is at least the passer/playmaker that Pippen was. And ball-handling: Wade. Penetration: Wade. Takeover: Wade. Clutch: Wade. Efficiency: Wade.

And most importantly, the gap between Wade and Pippen on offense is a CHASM compared to the gap between Pippen and Wade on defense.

[bond10]

Exactly. Pippen was a 21/7/7 player with or without Jordan. That's admirable consistency, but Wade put up 30/5/7.5 without his generation's supposed Jordan. No comparison whatsoever.

Also, because I know the "defense" argument is about to be raised, there's no way Pippen would be as an effective defender in the non-handchecking era. (That's called a counter-intuitive, my friends. Everyone says perimeter scorers are aided by the lack of handchecking today. It follows, then, that perimeter defenders in the handcheck-era were aided by the freedom to handcheck.)

This.

[BlackJoker23]

There is nothing that Drexler does better than Jordan, there are several things that Pippen is better than Wade at.

you just don't understand do you? david robinson was better at several things than shaq yet he can't carry o'neal's jockstrap. in fact, robinson would probably have the edge if you compare each facet of the game. the difference is shaq was so much better at low post scoring and playoff performance, that it shits on any edge robinson had.

same is true when comparing wade and pippen because there's a huge ass gap between their offensive talent and capabilities.

[TheMan]

Not a chance. Wade is at least the passer/playmaker that Pippen was. And ball-handling: Wade. Penetration: Wade. Takeover: Wade. Clutch: Wade.

And most importantly, the gap between Wade and Pippen on offense is a CHASM compared to the gap between Pippen and Wade on defense.

I'm not trying to say that Pip is better than Wade overall but he is better at D, rebounding and assists.

BTW, Pippen is an 8 time All Defensive first teamer while Wade is a 3 time All Defensive second teamer.

The gap between Pippen and Wade on defense is more than a little gap, it is also a chasm...

[TheMan]

Exactly. Pippen was a 21/7/7 player with or without Jordan. That's admirable consistency, but Wade put up 30/5/7.5 without his generation's supposed Jordan. No comparison whatsoever.

Also, because I know the "defense" argument is about to be raised, there's no way Pippen would be as an effective defender in the non-handchecking era. (That's called a counter-intuitive, my friends. Everyone says perimeter scorers are aided by the lack of handchecking today. It follows, then, that perimeter defenders in the handcheck-era were aided by the freedom to handcheck.)

The handcheck was eliminated in 94, Pippen was named All Defensive first team 8 straight years (92-99), looks like the handcheck rule didn't stop him from being a defensive force...

[jrong]

I'm not trying to say that Pip is better than Wade overall but he is better at D, rebounding and assists.

BTW, Pippen is an 8 time All Defensive first teamer while Wade is a 3 time All Defensive second teamer.

The gap between Pippen and Wade on defense is more than a little gap, it is also a chasm...

Pippen is a notably better defender than Wade, true; however the gap is not as large when you remember, as I said, that Pippen was allowed to handcheck and Wade isn't.

Also, with regards to defensive-team selections, I don't know if they were worthless back in the 90s, but now you even have many writers coming out and saying they are ridiculous. Kobe Bryant right now might as well be awarded first-team honors in advance until the year he names for his retirement date. Wade has been screwed at least three times by robo-Kobe voting.

And Pippen and Wade are equally adept passers. In the pre-LBJ-era, Wade was a perennial 7 apg player.

[TheMan]

Pippen is a notably better defender than Wade, true; however the gap is not as large when you remember, as I said, that Pippen was allowed to handcheck and Wade isn't.

Also, with regards to defensive-team selections, I don't know if they were worthless back in the 90s, but now you even have many writers coming out and saying they are ridiculous. Kobe Bryant right now might as well be awarded first-team honors in advance until the year he names for his retirement date. Wade has been screwed at least three times by robo-Kobe voting.

And Pippen and Wade are equally adept passers. In the pre-LBJ-era, Wade was a perennial 7 apg player.

Pippen wasn't allowed to handcheck either after 94, he was still an All Defensive first teamer 6 more years...I'll also note that I'm old enough to have watched prime Pippen and obviously Wade today, there is a huge difference in defensive capabilities.Pippen was a shutdown defender, among the best I've ever seen bar none.

I agree with you on that Wade should've won defensive SG over KB, no doubt.

[Micku]

And pippens no slouch offensively either.

I think you're overrating Pippen offense. Pippen is a guy who can shoot anywhere on the floor later on in his career, but he never shoots it in volume nor does he shoot it as well as Wade. He mainly is a slasher, which is fine.

But Wade does everything better on the offensive side. There's hardly anything that Pippen does better on the O. Wade can get by his man much easier.

Pippen was never on Wade's level. You can argue that he was a better rebounder and defender, which he was. I think Pippen may have been a better passer. But it's not too far away. Wade is a good defender and a good passer, but their offensive game is what separates them. Not to mention Wade steps up more in the playoffs while Pippen decrease more on the offensive side in his prime.

Wade creates way more attention which his ability to slash and shoot when he is hot. Wade is better finisher. Pippen was never that player.

However, we don't know what Wade would be look like with hand-checking. My guess is that they would defender better, but Wade was still quick enough to get pass his man. He would still be a superstar player.

The handcheck was eliminated in 94, Pippen was named All Defensive first team 8 straight years (92-99), looks like the handcheck rule didn't stop him from being a defensive force...

There was still hand-checking, but only if a player would go to a certain area. In 2004-05 or something, that's where the player have more space. No hand-checking period if I'm right. The 70s you get to see aggressive hand-checking.

[97 bulls]

And Wade hasn't shown versatility? What the heck is your point?

Sure he has. But not on jordans level.

[jrong]

Pippen wasn't allowed to handcheck either after 94, he was still an All Defensive first teamer 6 more years...I'll also note that I'm old enough to have watched prime Pippen and obviously Wade today, there is a huge difference in defensive capabilities.Pippen was a shutdown defender, among the best I've ever seen bar none.

Oh, I watched Pippen too, and he was clearly the superior defender. However, I wasn't aware then of what the contemporary perception was of various NBA awards. Were they perceived then, as they increasingly are today, as a joke? It doesn't mean that Pippen's honors were undeserved, it's just that I don't even know if those can ever be viewed as having any weight in player-comparisons anymore.

(For instance, I can make a fairly bullet-proof case that Wade>Drexler, but one of the (many) sources of evidence I used to cite was Wade's three second-team all-defense honors. But, I would probably leave that out now because for all I know, the selections were as flimsy then as they are today.)


....Anyway, the real difference between Wade and Pippen can be summed up as follows-- it's the comparison between a pure-alpha and a pure-beta. And there's a reason why betas aren't alphas (and why betas don't produce like alphas even when they are thrust into the role of playing as one)....