Wilt Chamberlain versus ...everyone else in NBA history combined

[LAZERUSS]

I actually think Wilt would be an elite player today.

But his ridiculous stats are the result of playing against really flawed competition

Yeah...again, entire seasons, covering 10+ games each against the likes of Reed, Bellamy, and Russell, and hanging 40 ppg on them. Or outshooting a PEAK Thurmond by DOUBLE from the field in their regular season H2H's.

A Chamberlain, who in his LAST two seasons, covering 11 straight games, averaged 24 ppg on a .760 FG% against the 6-11 HOFer Bob Lanier (BTW, he held a Prime Lanier to a .374 FG% in their six H2H games in his LAST season.)

[DatAsh]

This is more evidence that people commenting on Wilt's minutes ignore lots of context of the era. Star players would routinely play in whole or almost whole games that would be blowouts just for the sake of the fans who came to see them and the emerging NBA trying to gain popularity. Wilt still usually led the league in MPG, but not by blowout margins (say, 47 mpg to 40 mpg for the runner-up), so the stat-padding argument could be used by both sides - not to mention that when "exhaustion" that someone mentioned kicks in, padding for totals comes at the expense of per minute production and efficiency.

It was just a different era, with an all-together different mentality on star player minutes, as you mentioned.

[Asukal]

How do you KNOW that?

Think about this...

when Chamberlain came into the NBA, the scoring record was 29.2 ppg. Do you honestly think that ANYONE in the league AT THE TIME would have envisioned a player scoring 50 ppg with 100 point games?

And, as was clearly shown, it was ONLY Chamberlain who was putting up those staggering numbers.

As for Kareem...a 38-39 year old KAJ, as late as 1986, was dumping multiple 40 point games on Hakeem, and doing so with unfathomable efficiency.

A declining Chamberlain, in his 11th season, was LEADING the league in scoring at 32.2 ppg (on a .579 FG%) as late as the 69-70 season...the same year that rookie Kareem came into the league (and averaged 28.8 ppg in the regular season, and 35.2 ppg in the playoffs.) A PEAK Kareem would score 35 ppg a few years later.

Hakeem would go on to shot-jack to a 33 ppg Finals, on 30 FGAs per game, in an era of 80 TEAM FGAs. Hell, Shaq, as recently as 2000 was scoring 38 ppg in the Finals.


A motivated Wilt would certainly have blown Shaq's best seasons away, so 35 ppg seasons would easily be possible. Furthermore, Wilt's '62 season translates to 41 ppg in TODAY's era.

Everything is easy for Wilt except win rings.

[julizaver]

Of course wilt is going to put up incredible stats. He was doing it against guys that had to work second/off season jobs.

:) - Just another sidenote - Wilt had a lot of bussiness activities during his playing career, he was running a nightclub and was playing on stock markets. It was his claim that what he earn for an year in basketball he could lose it in one week at the stock market. Shaq was also involved in rap, commercials and movies and so on. So it is not a valid argument.

It would be like lebron dominating a semi pro league.

If you went and beat up 100 kindergartners, would that make you the best fighter of all time?

How we are going to rate a player who at his playing days made his opponents (fellow proffesionals) look like "100 kindergartners" or "guys that had to work second/off season jobs" ?

[Psileas]

:) - Just another sidenote - Wilt had a lot of bussiness activities during his playing career, he was running a nightclub and was playing on stock markets. It was his claim that what he earn for an year in basketball he could lose it in one week at the stock market. Shaq was also involved in rap, commercials and movies and so on. So it is not a valid argument.

And he did it during the actual season at times, his teams accusing him of spending too much time on off-court distractions - his amateurish opponents let a part timer dominate them...

[AceManIII]

If only Wilt's will to win matched his scoring ability/athleticism

[LAZERUSS]

If only Wilt's will to win matched his scoring ability/athleticism

Chamberlain in his 23 post-season "must-win" games...

31.1 ppg
26.3 rpg
.540 FG%

[senelcoolidge]

Stated already, but how many teams did Wilt take to the finals and conference finals. Team that without him would have not had any chance of going that far. Some of those teams lost by a mere few points. It's not as easy as people think it is to win championships. Especially during the Celtic dynasty run of the 60's.

[SpanishACB]

too bad points in one particular game don't win you champonships.

Or else you would have other thousands of Wilt fanboys and you would have to choose something else to have that delusion of identity and snowflake uniqueness.

[DaRkJaWs]

too bad points in one particular game don't win you champonships.

Or else you would have other thousands of Wilt fanboys and you would have to choose something else to have that delusion of identity and snowflake uniqueness.

Listen up n1g, if Anthony Davis had even 10 (never mind 1) 50 point games this season you'd be all up over and in his @$$ and you know it, you pathetic excuse for a rational thinking human being. Now buzz off.

[LAZERUSS]

Kareem played against the guy Wilt scored 100 points on... Same exact competition. What's your excuse for why he didn't crush him like Wilt?

THIS!

Of course we know that an early 60's Chamberlain ROUTINELY shelled a young Imhoff. The 100 point game was well known, but even Imhoff, himself, claimed that he had one of his greatest games of his career just a couple of nights after that 100 point barrage.

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Wilt_Chamberlain

Darrall Imhoff, who as a 6-foot-10 rookie center for the New York Knicks had the misfortune of guarding Chamberlain during his 100-point game in 1962, said, "I spent 12 years in his armpits, and I always carried that 100-point game on my shoulders. "After I got my third foul, I said to one of the officials, Willy Smith, 'Why don't you just give him 100 points and we'll all go home?' Well, we did." Two nights later, at Madison Square Garden, Chamberlain tried to go for the century mark again. But Imhoff 'held' him to 54 points. The fans gave Imhoff a standing ovation. "He was an amazing, strong man," Imhoff said. "I always said the greatest record he ever held wasn't 100 points, but his 55 rebounds against Bill Russell. Those two players changed the whole game of basketball. The game just took an entire step up to the next level." Stewart, Larry (1999-10-13). "Giant Towered Over the Rest". The Los Angeles Times

BTW, it was not 54 points, but rather 58 points.

In fact, just in that 61-62 season, alone, Chamberlain had NINE games of 50+ points against Imhoff, including games of 58, 59, 59, 67, and the 100 point explosion.


Fast forward to 69-70, when rookie Kareem faced off against Imhoff. KAJ (Alcindor) averaged 28.8 ppg against Imhoff in their six regular season H2H's.

And I have long maintained that Kareem hit his PEAK by the second half of his rookie season. From the second half of his rookie season, thru the playoffs, and then thru the entire 70-71 regular season and post-season, and then thru his entire 71-72 regular season, KAJ was at his absolute peak.

In the first round of the 69-70 playoffs, KAJ went H2H with Imhoff in five playoff games, and just plastered Darrell. He outscored Imhoff, 36.2 to 9.0 ppg, and on a .583 FG%. He also hung his career high game against Imhoff, of 46 points, on 18-36 from the field. BTW, KAJ went on to average a playoff career high of 35.2 ppg on a .567 FG% in that post-season.

Now, as a side-note, obviously the 46 point game was KAJ's high game against Imhoff, and in their 15 other career H2H games, Kareem's next highest scoring game against Imhoff, was 36 points, which he did twice.

As dominant as that was, here is some food for thought.

Again, that was in the 69-70 season.

Ah, the 69-70 season. Chamberlain's new coach, Joe Mullaney, after viewing the carnage left by his predecessor, the incompetent Butch "the Butcher" Van Breda Kolff, immediately went to Wilt before the start of the 69-70 season, and asked Chamberlain to become the focal point of the offense. And, as I have mentioned before, Wilt relished the role, and was leading the NBA in scoring in his first nine games, at 32.2 ppg (on a .579 FG%), when tragically, he shredded his knee, and was never the same offensive terror that he had been before.

However, in Wilt's very first game of that 69-70 season, he outscored Imhoff, 35-15 (while grabbing 24 rebounds.) So, a 33 year old Wilt, in his 11th season, was just as dominant against Imhoff, as a peak Kareem was.

But it gets even better.

In Wilt's 68-69 season, while we know that Van Breda Kolff put the shackles on Chamberlain, Wilt still had one game of 36 points, on 14-21 shooting, against Imhoff. That was in the midst of Wilt's "rebellion" when he went off on a 17 game scoring binge, in which he averaged 31.1 ppg (including games of 60, 66.)

Ok, now let's go back yet another season, to 67-68. IMHO, this was Wilt's last "prime" season.

In his seven H2H games with Imhoff, Chamberlain averaged 28.1 ppg, 26.9 rpg, 8.6 apg, and on a .638 FG%. Included were games of 31, 32, 35, and get this... a 53-32-14 game on 24-29 from the field.


Go back to Wilt's 66-67 season. I consider this Wilt's greatest all-around season. In his nine H2H's with Imhoff... 26.4 ppg, 24.0 rpg, 7.4 apg, and how about this... a .759 FG%! Of course, when Wilt wanted to, he just abused Imhoff and the Lakers that year. He had games of:
37-24-12 on 16-21 shooting; 39-28-6 on 16-23 shooting; 28-30-7 on 13-13 shooting; and a 32-30-9 game on 15-15 shooting.

Now, how about a prime "scoring" Wilt? I consider Chamberlain's 65-66 season as perhaps his greatest in terms of just pure domination over his peers. He just OVERWHELMED Bellamy, Thurmond, and Russell that season. And how did he do against Imhoff? In their 10 H2H's, Wilt outscored Imhoff, per game, by ... drum-roll please... a 40.8 to 3.0 ppg margin. Granted, not all of those points were poured in against Imhoff (Imhoff shared the center duties with 6-11 Leroy Ellis), but he certainly took his brunt of a "scoring" Chamberlain.

In those 10 H2H's in that 65-66 season, Chamberlain hung games of 42, 49, 53, and 65 points. And in Imhoff's best game against Wilt, he was "only" outscored 39-8, but fouled out trying to defend him.

I won't bother going back any further. We know that a peak scoring Chamberlain averaged 54.5 ppg against Imhoff and his Knicks in the 61-62 season.

So, again, this was just ONE example of how much more dominant a peak-to-prime Wilt was against the same centers that a peak Kareem would face a few years later.

Furthermore, remember that a peak Kareem averaged a 36.2 ppg against Imhoff in the 69-70 playoffs? Why is that important? Because a peak Wilt never had the same opportunity. Instead of pouring in 40-50 ppg games against Imhoff and the Lakers in his post-seasons in the 60's, Wilt was instead battling Reed, Bellamy, Thurmond, and Russell.

I don't think that there is a shred of doubt, that, had Chamberlain faced the Lakers even once in the playoffs in the 60's, that he would hold many of the post-season scoring records (and likely the FG% marks as well.)

[BigBoss]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=362156

[LAZERUSS]

BTW, Wilt has FOUR of the SIX highest FG% marks in 60+ point games, including the highest (.829.)

[-23-]

BTW, Wilt has FOUR of the SIX highest FG% marks in 60+ point games, including the highest (.829.)

And how many of these were in the playoffs?

[LAZERUSS]

Arguably the greatest consecutive games in NBA history, and they occurred in two consecutive nights, as well.

On 1/13/62, and against 6-11 HOFer Walt Bellamy, Chamberlain put up a 73 point game, on 29-48 shooting (and 15-25 from the line), with 36 rebounds.

The very next night, on 1/14/62, Chamberlain went up against Russell, and poured in 62 points, on 27-45 shooting (and 8-10 from the line), with 28 rebounds.

Of course, how about a string of FOUR straight games with 60+ points (and nearly five...he had 58 points in the next game)...

67, 65, 61, and 100 points, on a combined .579 FG% ...and get this, an .802 FT% (73-91.)

He also added 97 rebounds in those four games (24.3 rpg.)

And again, in his fifth game of that streak, he scored 58 points on 24-41 shooting from the field, and 10-16 from the stripe, with 35 rebounds.

Overall, a five game streak of 351 points, or 70.2 ppg, on a .580 FG% and a .776 FT%, with 26.4 rpg. Oh, and the league eFG% was .426 that year.