Bad locker room players who were very good players

[SilkkTheShocker]

Kobe and Shaq are both known for throwing teammates under the bus. After reading the Jordan Rules, I would say Jordan was a pretty shitty teammate.

[magnax1]

I'm sure his former coach had no idea what was going on.



McGrady admitted his lack of practice habits as well.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/bal...?urn=nba,wp220

A team practice is one thing, but he even said it in the quote you posted
"I always felt like working on my individual skills was taking my talent to another level" It's very clear that the guy worked his ass off to get to where he was. You'd have to never have played much basketball to think he didn't put in a ton of time getting his game to a top level.

[StateOfMind12]

Secondly, the impact that this sort of stuff has on the game is extremely minimal anyway.

Have you ever played an organized sport in high school or at any time in your life? I'm assuming you haven't because if you did you actually would understand the impact it can have.

I'm sorry but for me I personally have a hard time following a leader that doesn't practice hard to set an example, doesn't play hard, and is a complete dick. When I play with players who are like that, I couldn't careless whether or not my team wins anymore because I know that my douchebag teammate won't win either.

Maybe some players are different but I'm more than positive that players who have played the sport understand how much different it is to play with a talented player who is a good teammate and a talented player who is a dickhead.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Have you ever played an organized sport in high school or at any time in your life? I'm assuming you haven't because if you did you actually would understand the impact it can have.

I'm sorry but for me I personally have a hard time following a leader that doesn't practice hard to set an example, doesn't play hard, and is a complete dick. When I play with players who are like that, I couldn't careless whether or not my team wins anymore because I know that my douchebag teammate won't win either.

Maybe some players are different but I'm more than positive that players who have played the sport understand how much different it is to play with a talented player who is a good teammate and a talented player who is a dickhead.

This. You can't respect guys like Tmac. He just wasn't a winner. Great player, but he was a dogshit leader. How can you respect someone that has a shitty work ethic? His legacy will be that of a loser

[livingby3's]

Dennis Rodman?

[magnax1]

Have you ever played an organized sport in high school or at any time in your life? I'm assuming you haven't because if you did you actually would understand the impact it can have.

I have, and as I said it's minimal. There have been tons of teams where everyone hated eachother and won championships. The early 90's Bulls, the 80's Celtics. What matters is that you have guys who want to win, and one person doesn't change that at all, and what you do outside of the games isn't much of an indication of how hard you fight to win a game anyway. I think this sort of stuff is another example in a list of thousands of people over valuing the individual in the team sport of basketball.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Dennis Rodman?

He wasn't popular in the San Antonio lockerroom

[StateOfMind12]

There have been tons of teams where everyone hated eachother and won championships. The early 90's Bulls, the 80's Celtics.

The two examples you gave are two of the most stacked teams ever especially in their era.

What matters is that you have guys who want to win, and one person doesn't change that at all,

When you are the star/best player/leader? It clearly does.

Great players maximize their teammates potential, McGrady never did that, he actually did the complete opposite. He pretty much destroyed all of his teammates confidence by throwing them all under the bus and then nobody was probably following him because he never set an example and was a poor overall leader.

[magnax1]

The two examples you gave are two of the most stacked teams ever especially in their era.

Really? I never thought of the early 90's Bulls as stacked at all. In fact, I've always thought of them as a team that Jordan carried over far more talented teams from 2-12, like the 93 Suns, 92 Blazers, 92 and 93 Knicks.

When you are the star/best player/leader? It clearly does.

Once again, what about those Bulls? The vast majority of players outright hated Jordan. Jordan hated Cartwright so much because he was traded for his best friend (Oakley) that he constantly harassed him, even to the point of tears. Horace and Jordan never got along, Pippen was asking for trades, even after winning a championship, and he was the one who was really the leader of that team. There was all sorts of stuff that doesn't exactly reek of great chemistry and leadership on those teams.

Great players maximize their teammates potential, McGrady never did that, he actually did the complete opposite. He pretty much destroyed all of his teammates confidence by throwing them all under the bus and then nobody was probably following him because he never set an example and was a poor overall leader.

I don't know how he didn't maximize his talent. He never had much in the first place, but he played well in 01 and 02 in the regular season and playoffs, he took the ECF Pistons to 7 in 03 with one of the worst teams ever surrounding a top 5 player, he completely dominated the Mavs in 05, but still lost in 7 because he once again had a shit team. I don't know what more you could ask of him out of his prime with the teams he had.

[StateOfMind12]

I don't know how he didn't maximize his talent. He never had much in the first place, but he played well in 01 and 02 in the regular season and playoffs, he took the ECF Pistons to 7 in 03 with one of the worst teams ever surrounding a top 5 player, he completely dominated the Mavs in 05, but still lost in 7 because he once again had a shit team. I don't know what more you could ask of him out of his prime with the teams he had.

I think he did all he could in Orlando but he could have done much more in Houston but I suppose you could argue that he was just out of his prime by the time he got to Houston or after his 1st year there.

Tmac definitely underachieved in Houston individually and we all know he was always a bad teammate. He should have gotten past the 1st round in 2007 against Utah but he folded and it was the only time he was the favorite, yet he had the complete worst playoff series of his career. He couldn't handle the pressure of being the favorite.

I thought MJ was a great leader though, he was just a jerk. There is a difference between him and McGrady and that is that McGrady was a bad leader and a jerk.

[LikeABosh]

Kome running possibly the most dominate center ever out of LA, throwing teammates under the bus and raping a woman.

[magnax1]

Tmac definitely underachieved in Houston individually and we all know he was always a bad teammate. He should have gotten past the 1st round in 2007 against Utah but he folded and it was the only time he was the favorite, yet he had the complete worst playoff series of his career. He couldn't handle the pressure of being the favorite.

I don't know if they should have won that series for certain. They certainly had lots of problems keeping up with Utah's great offense, but they were also a much better defensive team then Utah. I don't think McGrady's series was really that awful in 07 either. He put up quite a few shots because Houston's offense was pretty stagnant and really not that good excluding Yao and Tmac, but he wasn't capable of really carrying that load like he could at one point. Yao played pretty poorly that year too. Okur played good post D on him, but Yao should've been going off against what was overall a pretty damn weak front line defensively. He ended up shooting in the low 40's shooting wise in that series.

I thought MJ was a great leader though, he was just a jerk. There is a difference between him and McGrady and that is that McGrady was a bad leader and a jerk.

Well once again, I don't think you can say any of that with certainty. Even the stuff I posted about Jordan being an ass hole I'm not really willing to hold against him. It's all he said she said bullshit. You're never going to get an accurate picture of what kind of leader, or any other thing a player is by reading stuff from the media.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Calling Jordan - one of the greatest leaders ever - a bad locker room player is hysterically biased.

[FlashDwyaneWade3]

You can't leave out Shaq and Kobe.

Shaq threw Kobe under the bus in the three-peat era.
Kobe has thrown Pau under the bus this past season.

Both of them were at each others throat when they were teammates.

Not just Kobe. Shaq kicked Eddie Jones off the team twice with the Lakers and the Heat. He hates Eddie. He also kicked out Nick Van Exel. He hated Penny Hardaway and former head coach, Brian Hill.

[FlashDwyaneWade3]

Calling Jordan - one of the greatest leaders ever - a bad locker room player is hysterically biased.

If all of Mike's teammates liked Scottie more than him, then the people who criticize Mike has a point.