Garnett vs Malone vs Barkley (Who's the second best PF of all time)

[DwadeOverLebron]

in there primes barkley would be the superior player i would say but with the over all body of work throughout a career malone was overall more consistent, so who's the better pf? i guess its just a matter of opinion but ill say this barkley prime and malone prime would eat kg prime up gauranteed!

[G-train]

I'll go with Malone. A notch above Barkley at everything except maybe ball handling, spitting on children and throwing people through glass. However Malone counters that with underage sex.

[AK47DR91]

Malone
Garnett
Barkley

[Round Mound]

@ Round Mound

I love Charles Barkley his Suns and Rockets teams were my favorite teams of the 1990's era between the two Piston runs.

But you almost ruin him for me without your over the top assesments.

He was very good and is arguablly a better player than Malone and Garnett despite the fact that those two have MUCH better resumes at first glance.

Barkley put up great stats in an era that fit him perfectly but never came close to a title except in 1993 when Kevin Johnson's poor play in the first two games at home put Phoenix behind the eight ball.

A great player, one of the most entertaining ever to watch, but not an all-time great.

As for 1990, yes the media stole it, but another look at the numbers and the postseason suggest it probably should have been Michael Jordan's anyway more than his or Magic's.

So Russell has a better resume than Jordan was he betterr? Just look at the skills. Also in terms what really happened on court PER, EFF and +/- clearly indicates Barkley was more dominant than both and also more efficient. This is not MVP votings, All NBA Teams and Media Fanship...This is Reality of What Happened at Court While U Watched: IMPACT (Barkley healthy 85-95)

Those stats demonstrate reality and im glad i found them because i always said that Jordan, Hakeem and Barkley where the best in the late 80s and early 90s BEFORE ALL OF THESE STATS (i was saying this by 1995) and it happens to be exact.

No Pf was guarded with more cuastion and defensive rotationsthan than Barkley.

No Pf recieved more Double Teaming 12-15 Ft Away from the Rim

The "5 Second Back to the Basket Rule" was indeed for Barkley.

He recieved way more double teaming and he shot this in the 2-Point Region.

58.13% on 21.6 PPG on 12.9 Two-Point FGAs PG
55.13% on 22.5 PPG on 14.5 Two-Point FGAs PG

That is he was a better PURE SCORER than Malone. Period!

[COLOR="DarkRed"]1-Barkley`s 2-Point FG% is

58% (Season) and 55% (Play-Offs Season)

He did that 5-6 Times (and around and 64% twice over 22 and 24 PPG)

2-Only Player to Score 20 + PPG on 60% + 2-Point FG% in the last 19 Years Not Named Shaq[/COLOR]

http://www.rootzoo.com/articles/view...cs-Primer_3549

Putting it together: Offensive Rating. By now, you're probably impatient for a number that tells us [COLOR="Blue"]how efficient a player is overall with the possessions that he uses,[/COLOR] and the answer comes in the form of Dean Oliver's Offensive Rating (OR). The formula is a bit complicated to reproduce here (I refer you to Oliver's excellent Basketball on Paper for its full derivation), but it suffices to say that [COLOR="blue"]Offensive Rating provides a rating of how many points a player scores per 100 possessions that he uses while on the floor.[/COLOR] The league's typical rating has varied throughout history, but today stands at around 107.

[COLOR="DarkRed"]The best OR belong to jump-shooting guards and, to a lesser extent, high-percentage post players. The career leaders are Steve Kerr (122.06), Reggie Miller (121.48), Magic Johnson (120.79), John Stockton (120.55), and Kiki Vandeweghe (119.49).[/COLOR]

[COLOR="Navy"]In general, the more possessions that a player uses, the lower we expect his OR to be, because player who use more possessions have to use more possessions in precarious situations[/COLOR].

[COLOR="DarkRed"]If a player has a high career Usage Rate and a high OR, that indicates that he is a monster on offense[/COLOR].[COLOR="Blue"] Magic Johnson falls into this category, as does Charles Barkley (119.31)[/COLOR], Adran Dantley (118.40), the incomparable Michael Jordan (who, with the highest career Usage Rate, had a career OR of 117.97, the 13th best in history), and Dirk Nowitzki (117.80).[/B]

Ofcourse over Duncan and Garnett

Then Rebounding. Barkley wins

Game Creating. Barkley wins over Both

Passing: He was the Best Passing PF. And i don`t mean length to get assist Barkley would set his teamates up so well and they would miss his shots because he never had the offensive schemes with Better Frontliners like Malone did with Baily and latter on better fundamental players, ofcourse Stockton setting him up pff

*Barkley would have owned if he was set up by Stockton because he was a better versatile player and superior Pure Scorer.

If you wan`t Win Share..:Barkley had a superior one to Malone till 1996 (having weaker casts over his career)

Stealing: Barkley is arguably the Best Steeling PF Ever
Great Team Defender

The only thing Garnett and Malone where better was Man to Man Defense.

Barkley`s resume Offensive and difference of ORT is WAY higher than Malone`s while Malone was slightly a Better Man to Man Defender. DRT shows slightly only.

Barkley was a Better Shot Blocker than Malone too.

Duncan was the one that was a Total Better Man to Man Defender and Shot Blocker as was Garnett too but Offensively he is not close to even Malone or Duncan (Malone because was part of a system whose ORT is inflated. Had he not played with Stockton it would have been lower).

Its Barkley vs Duncan here in Reality: EFF, PER and Statistical Plus/Minus

Oh and Malone shot 46& FG in the Play-Offs for 24.7 PPG and 47% Two-Point FG for 24.5 PPG while Barkley shot 51% for 23.0 PPG and yes an insane 55.13% Two-Pioint FG for 22.5 PPG.

-All This Taking Less FGAs PG than Malone.

= Way Effective Scorer "With No System Designed For Him Only"

Barkley was also more skilled at all of this than All of Them

-Post Play
-Mid Range Shooting
-1 on 1 Drives and Power Moves
-Spint Moves
-Ballhandling
-Coast to Coats
-Creating
-Causing Missmatches

etc

Oh and Barkley outplayed Malone for 70% of their meetings before his injuries. Ofcourse the Media (who hated him in the 80s and early 90s) had it made this to never show up (Walton did not forget ofcourse by mentioning it)

He also outplayed Garnett at ages 32-36 and outplayed Duncan at ages 34-36.

Barkley is clearly statistically (not raw or nice looking some up of stats or votes) better than All Pfs but "maybe" Duncan. As Jordan is the Best Ever in the same way.

[jlauber]

So Russell has a better resume than Jordan was he betterr? Just look at the skills. Also in terms what really happened on court PER, EFF and +/- clearly indicates Barkley was more dominant than both and also more efficient. This is not MVP votings, All NBA Teams and Media Fanship.

Those stats demonstrate reality and im glad i found them because i always said that Jordan, Hakeem and Barkley where the best in the late 80s and early 90s and it happens to be exact.

No Pf was guarded with more cuastion and defensive rotationsthan Barkley.

The "5 Second Back to the Basket Rule" was indeed for Barkley.

He recieved way more double teaming and he shot this in the 2-Point Region.

58.13% on 21.6 PPG on 12.9 Two-Point FGAs PG
55.13% on 22.5 PPG on 14.5 Two-Point FGAs PG

That is he was a better PURE SCORER than Malone
Ofcourse over Duncan and Garnett

Then Rebounding. Barkley wins

Game Creating. Barkley wins over Both

Passing: He was the Best Passing PF. And i don`t mean length to get assist Barkley would set his teamates up so well and they would miss his shots because he never the offensive schemes with better Frontliners like Malone did with Baily and latter on better fundamental players, ofcourse Stockton setting him up pff Barkley would have owned if he was set up by Stockton because he was a better versatile player.

If you wan`t Win Share..:Barkley had a superior one to Malone till 1995 (having weaker casts over his career)

Stealing: Barkley is arguably the Best Steeling PF Ever
Great Team Defender

The only thing Garnett and Malone where better was Man to Man Defense.

Barkley`s resule and difference of ORT is way higher than Malone`s while Malone was slightly a Better Man to Man Defender. DRT shows slightly.

Barkley was a Better Shot Blocker than Malone too.

Duncan was the one that was a Total Better Man to Man Defender and Shot Blocker but Offensively he is not close (not even Malone because he was part of a system whose ORT is inflated. Had he not played with Stockton it would have been lower).

Its Barkley vs Duncan here in Reality: EFF, PER and Statistical Plus/Minus

Oh and Malone shot 46& FG in the Play-Offs for 24.7 PPG and 47% Two-Point FG for 24.5 PPG while Barkley shot 51% for 23.0 PPG and yes an insane 55.13% for 22.5 PPG.

Taking Less FGAs PG than Malone.

Way Effective Scorer "With No System Designed For Him Only"

Barkley was also more skilled at all of this than All of Them

-Post Play
-Mid Range Shooting
-1 on 1 Drives and Power Moves
-Ballhandling
-Coast to Coats
-Creating
-Causing Missmatches

etc

Oh and Barkley outplayed Malone for 70% of their meetings before his injuries. Ofcourse the Media (who hated him in the 80s and early 90s) had it made this to never show up (Walton did not forget ofcourse by mentioning it)

He also outplayed Garnett at ages 32-36 and outplayed Duncan at ages 34-36.

Barkley is clearly statistically (not raw or nice looking some up of stats) better than All Pfs but "maybe" Duncan. As Jordan is the Best Ever.

You do do a great job of backing up your points...as well as anyone on this forum. I applaud you for that.

[Yung D-Will]

@ Round Mound

I love Charles Barkley his Suns and Rockets teams were my favorite teams of the 1990's era between the two Piston runs.

But you almost ruin him for me without your over the top assesments.

He was very good and is arguablly a better player than Malone and Garnett despite the fact that those two have MUCH better resumes at first glance.

Barkley put up great stats in an era that fit him perfectly but never came close to a title except in 1993 when Kevin Johnson's poor play in the first two games at home put Phoenix behind the eight ball.

A great player, one of the most entertaining ever to watch, but not an all-time great.

As for 1990, yes the media stole it, but another look at the numbers and the postseason suggest it probably should have been Michael Jordan's anyway more than his or Magic's.

Yea Round Mound made me do more research on Barkley and watch more games so I saw why some people consider him a better player then Malone.

That's what I saw on the court. It had nothing to do with advance stats and advance stats aren't gonna suddenly make me change my mind on the topic.

[jlauber]

Yea Round Mound made me do more research on Barkley and watch more games so I saw why some people consider him a better player then Malone.

That's what I saw on the court. It had nothing to do with advance stats and advance stats aren't gonna suddenly make me change my mind on the topic.

Once again, I applaud Round Mound's research, but ultimately it is hard to argue with what your eyes tell you. I didn't need stats to tell me that Koufax was as dominating a pitcher as there ever was. I didn't need to see the defensive stats when the '85 Bears were TERRORIZING offenses. Ultimately, stats can only tell you so much, but your EYES can tell you much more.

[magnax1]

I think that Prime Barkley was considerably better then Malone, but the more I look at Malone's 20 years of all star play, its hard for me to say that Barkley had a better career. Definitely a better peak though.

[Yung D-Will]

I'll go with Malone. A notch above Barkley at everything except maybe ball handling, spitting on children and throwing people through glass. However Malone counters that with underage sex.

Lol did you just imply Malone is a better rebounder then Barkley?