Wade said:

[Jacks3]

And that's because having severe injuries make you unable to play to even close to your full potential. Severe injuries that drastically affect your play are the only thing that can force you out of from being in your prime.

And Kobe was playing with severe injuries. I guess Wade was in his prime 07-08.
Prime Wade lead his team to 15 wins! And no, when injuries ruin you to the point where you're seeing massive drop-offs in play compared to just a previous year, it's not a prime season.

How does that change the fact that Bull series isn't a prime version of Wade. Did Wade not show a massive drop off in play from the Celtics Series to the Bulls series?

It's not the same. You're talking about one series. I'm talking about entire seasons with a massive drop-off on both ends. You can be in your prime and still have bad series. This has happened to Prime Kobe/LeBron/Wade/Bird etc. But you can't realistically say someone is having a prime season if he clearly isn't close to the same level as his previous season due to injuries/off-court issues.

Wade had a better FG percentage meaning he shot better and hit clutch shots.

Kobe was clutch too.

Bottom-line: Kobe had a FAR better series. Do you dispute this?

24/6/6/1 TOV/50% TS>>19/6/4/5 TOV/50% TS

[KOLBCTEW]

And Kobe was playing with severe injuries.

Kobe was on one arm and one leg? Kobe had his shoulder ripped from his socket? What severe injuries are you talking about.

I guess Wade was in his prime 07-08.
Prime Wade lead his team to 15 wins! And no, when injuries ruin you to the point where you're seeing massive drop-offs in play compared to just a previous year, it's not a prime season..

Uhhh.. that's what I said..

And that's because having severe injuries make you unable to play to even close to your full potential. Severe injuries that drastically affect your play are the only thing that can force you out of from being in your prime...

It's not the same. You're talking about one series. I'm talking about entire seasons with a massive drop-off on both ends....

We're both talking about an extended period of time where there was a massive drop-off in play..

You can be in your prime and still have bad series. This has happened to Prime Kobe/LeBron/Wade/Bird etc.

Your logic dictates if your having a bad series, month, year doesn't matter how long your out of your prime as your not playing up to your prime state. So 03-04 isn't a prime version of Kobe just as Bulls series isn't a prime version of Wade.

But you can't realistically say someone is having a prime season if he clearly isn't close to the same level as his previous season due to injuries/off-court issues. .

For one injuries weren't severe enough to drastically affect his play and Wade had gone through a custody case for almost three year where he could've lost his kids,

Kobe was clutch too..

In What games?
[QUOTE=Jacks3
Bottom-line: Kobe had a FAR better series. Do you dispute this?

24/6/6/1 TOV/50% TS>>19/6/4/5 TOV/50% TS [/QUOTE]
Do you dispute that he shot 38% which is worse than Wade. Do you dispute that he played more minutes and had more attempts

[Jacks3]

Kobe was on one arm and one leg? Kobe had his shoulder ripped from his socket? What severe injuries are you talking about.

Kobe had knee and shoulder surgery during the off-season and never recovered.

Your logic dictates if your having a bad series, month, year doesn't matter how long your out of your prime as your not playing up to your prime state. So 03-04 isn't a prime version of Kobe just as Bulls series isn't a prime version of Wade.

No.Read again. You can be in your prime and still have bad series. This has happened to Prime Kobe/LeBron/Wade/Bird etc. But you can't realistically say someone is having a prime season if he clearly isn't close to the same level as his previous season due to injuries/off-court issues. .

Do you dispute that he shot 38% which is worse than Wade. Do you dispute that he played more minutes and had more attempts

1. Kobe had the much better series. 24/6/6/1 TOV/50% TS>>19/6/4/5 TOV/50% TS

2. Wade's series was epically bad. 19/6/4/5 TOV per game/50% TS.

[KOLBCTEW]

Kobe had knee and shoulder surgery during the off-season and never recovered.

That's what counts for a serious injury? Wade has migraines which he can't recover from and that shoulder he had surgery on was acting up this year (meaning he never recovered from it), plus his knee was acting up as well...

No.Read again. You can be in your prime and still have bad series.

How considering His numbers don't reflect prime play?

This has happened to Prime Kobe/LeBron/Wade/Bird etc..

Then during those periods they weren't in their primes given that their numbers don't reflect it.

But you can't realistically say someone is having a prime season if he clearly isn't close to the same level as his previous season due to injuries/off-court issues. .

For one injuries weren't severe enough to drastically affect his play and Wade had gone through a custody case for almost three year where he could've lost his kids,

1. Kobe had the much better series. 24/6/6/1 TOV/50% TS>>19/6/4/5 TOV/50% TS

2. Wade's series was epically bad. 19/6/4/5 TOV per game/50% TS.

Again Do you dispute that he shot 38% which is worse than Wade. Do you dispute that he played more minutes and had more attempts.

[Jacks3]

That's what counts for a serious injury? Wade has migraines which he can't recover from and that shoulder he had surgery on was acting up this year (meaning he never recovered from it), plus his knee was acting up as well...

Considering the massive drop-off play, yes it's serious.



Again:
No.Read again. You can be in your prime and still have bad series. This has happened to Prime Kobe/LeBron/Wade/Bird etc.. But you can't realistically say someone is having a prime season if he clearly isn't close to the same level as his previous season due to injuries/off-court issues. .

Again Do you dispute that he shot 38% which is worse than Wade. Do you dispute that he played more minutes and had more attempts.

Well, no, I don't dispute it but that doesn't change the fact....

1. Kobe's series was much better. Kobe had the much better series. 24/6/6/1 TOV/50% TS>>19/6/4/5 TOV/50% TS

2. Wade's series was epically bad. 19/6/4/5 TOV per game/50% TS.

[Hank]

2. Wade's series was epically bad. 19/6/4/5 TOV per game/50% TS.

Do you even watch basketball? That's just simply not true. Wade was epic on defense and played like a big man in that bulls series with all the rebounds and combating bulls bigs in the paint. and this was of major importance against a bulls team that thrives on rebounds and what they do in the paint.

Wade is on pace to set historical NBA records in a playoff run for a player of his size, and even bigger than him - partly for how fantastic he was in all the other areas of the game in that chicago series

http://insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=225007

and that is because wade is a complete player who can impact big games in more ways than kobe can. As we saw in the olympics as well when wade was far better than kobe too, and made much more of an impact in various forms of the games.

[Jacks3]

Do you even watch basketball? That's just simply not true. ]

. Sorry, but 19/6/4/50% TS is HORRIBLE for a top 5 player.

[Jacks3]

and that is because wade is a complete player who can impact big games in more ways than kobe can.

Maybe current Kobe. Too bad prime Kobe was a better all-around player than Wade.

[KOLBCTEW]

Considering the massive drop-off play, yes it's serious.

Except that's not much of an indicator considering this was not an issue in the season.

Again:
No.Read again. You can be in your prime and still have bad series.

You still haven't answered.
How considering His numbers don't reflect prime play?

This has happened to Prime Kobe/LeBron/Wade/Bird etc.. .

Then you can easily say during those periods they weren't in their primes given that their numbers don't reflect it.

But you can't realistically say someone is having a prime season if he clearly isn't close to the same level as his previous season due to injuries/
.

IT wasn't drastic enough to severely affect his play so that point is moot.

off-court issues. .

Everyone has off the court issues

Well, no, I don't dispute it but that doesn't change the fact....

1. Kobe's series was much better. Kobe had the much better series. 24/6/6/1 TOV/50% TS>>19/6/4/5 TOV/50% TS

2. Wade's series was epically bad. 19/6/4/5 TOV per game/50% TS.

If your ignoring the fact Wade shot better and had fewer attempts and played less minutes whilesaying Kobe had the better series you are..

[Jacks3]

Except that's not much of an indicator considering this was not an issue in the season.

What?

You still haven't answered.
How considering His numbers don't reflect prime play?

A drop-off in numbers in a 5 game series is NOT the same as another player literally seeing a huge drop-off for an ENTIRE season compared to his previous.

Then you can easily say during those periods they weren't in their primes given that their numbers don't reflect it.

No, they were still in their prime because their play over the ENTIRE season reflected it, even if they had one bad series. They didn't see huge drop-off's in play for ENTIRE SEASONS compared to the previous season due to injuries like 04 Kobe/08 Wade.

IT wasn't drastic enough to severely affect his play so that point is moot.

How was it not drastic enough when his entire 2004 season was considerably worse than what he did just the previous year or 2001? DO you think a drop-off like that is normal? How else do you explain him seeing a HUGE drop in his game on both sides of the ball compared to 2002-2003? It just happened?

If your ignoring the fact Wade shot better and had fewer attempts and played less minutes whilesaying Kobe had the better series you are..

I'm ignoring it because saying Wade was better in those areas doesn't make the fact that Kobe had a MUCH better series any less true. Frankly, it doesn't matter much. Kobe still had the much better series. 24/6/6/1 TOV/50% TS>>19/6/4/5 TOV/50% TS.

Wade still had a horrible series.

[Hank]

Too bad prime Kobe was a better all-around player than Wade.

Too bad he wasn't. And that's why every single time they've had similar supporting casts and/or went up against the same competition Wade always outperformed Kobe, and Wade's teams always outperformed kobe's teams whenever they've had similar supporting casts on 3 occasions. Then you have the olympics, which is a 4th occasion, when their primes were merged closely, and Wade totally outperformed kobe in just about every conceivable measure there too.


Wade >> kobe .. then and now.

[Jacks3]

Too bad he wasn't. And that's why every single time they've had similar supporting casts and/or went up against the same competition Wade always outperformed Kobe, and Wade's teams always outperformed kobe's teams. Then you have the olympics when their primes were merged closely and Wade totally outperformed kobe in just about every conceivable measure there too.

You're an alternate account for Heat007 aren't you?

None of what you said disproved my post. Prime Kobe was better than Wade or equal in literally every area. Scoring, defense, re-bounding.,passing, skill-set,clutch play, shooting.

[Hank]

st. Prime Kobe was better than Wade or equal in literally every area. Scoring, defense, re-bounding.,passing, skill-set,clutch play, shooting.

no he wasn't.

[KOLBCTEW]

A drop-off in numbers in a 5 game series is NOT the same as another player literally seeing a huge drop-off for an ENTIRE season compared to his previous..

So what if it's not the same? The only difference is the time, it still doesn't change the fact that 5 game series or entire season play was not Prime play.

No, they were still in their prime because their play over the ENTIRE season reflected it, even if they had one bad series. ..

Uh.. They're no longer in their primes if they're playing badly.. They get back into their primes once they start playing well again.

They didn't see huge drop-off's in play for ENTIRE SEASONS compared to the previous season due to injuries like 04 Kobe/08 Wade...

Wade's injury was debilitating... Kobe's wasn't..

How was it not drastic enough when his entire 2004 season was considerably worse than what he did just the previous year or 2001?...

So your saying just because he played badly it means he was injured. I guess Wade was suffering through migraines and injuries in each game he played poorly.

DO you think a drop-off like that is normal??...

Neither is a terrible series..

How else do you explain him seeing a HUGE drop in his game on both sides of the ball compared to 2002-2003? It just happened?

Uh.. Yes, just like players shooting badly can happen. Just like players missing shots they usually make can happen. Just like players making poor decisions on the court can happen. Which is why players don't average virtually the same production every year in their peak because they can make mistakes even over an extended period of time.

I'm ignoring it because saying Wade was better in those areas doesn't make the fact that Kobe had a MUCH better series any less true..

He was more efficient, had fewer shots and played less minutes..
Just because Kobe was better in areas(like winning championships) doesn't make the fact that Wade has a MUCH better career any less true...

Frankly, it doesn't matter much. Kobe still had the much better series. 24/6/6/1 TOV/50% TS>>19/6/4/5 TOV/50% TS.

Just like Wade has the much better Prime AMIRITE??

Wade still had a horrible series.

No one is disputing that...

[chazzy]

Kolb, quit discussing a year you clearly did not watch or remember . Kobe's injuries were a recurring problem all year and everyone considered 04 to be a down year. Everyone's already explained the fact that he had two surgeries, reinjured his shoulder during the year, and his numbers dropped all across the board but your only retort is "oh it wasn't that bad!"

And yes, both Wade and Kobe's series were bad but Wade's was worse, especially with the 5 TOVs.