Tim/Shaq lived on another level than Kobe

[Anaximandro1]

Let's take a look at some cold, hard numbers (Source: Basketball Reference)

[Electric Slide]

anyone who isn't a Kobe fan knows this.

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

kobe was on that level for a couple years. he just didn't have the team around him 2006ish.

[theoneneo]

The problem is, when people remember these guys, no one is gonna bring up stats like Per and WS Useless stats, the only stat that people care about at the end of the day is Points scored and W's and L's. That is all. You nerds go digging for meaningless stats... Kobe owns Timmy D in the playoffs, thats a fact. Absolutely destroyed him in 2001 and 2008. That's all we'll remember.

[bukowski81]

The problem is, when people remember these guys, no one is gonna bring up stats like Per and WS Useless stats, the only stat that people care about at the end of the day is Points scored and W's and L's. That is all. You nerds go digging for meaningless stats... Kobe owns Timmy D in the playoffs, thats a fact. Absolutely destroyed him in 2001 and 2008. That's all we'll remember.

Timmy made him cry in 2003

[daily]

Those numbers actually do nothing to make your argument.

the difference between a % point here and there is so small that it comes down to one made shot a game or a bad pass here and there

the only glaring difference i see is blocked shots and rebounding but that's to be expected when you match a SG against a center in a agenda driven pissing contest

[Deuce Bigalow]

Yeah right

Best seasons
35-5-4 56ts
32-6-5 58ts
30-7-6 55ts

Best playoff runs
30-6-6 58ts
30-6-5 56ts
29-7-6 56ts

Career achievements
5 titles
15 all star teams
2 finals mvps
11 all nba first teams
Regular season mvp

[Magic 32]

Timmy made him cry in 2003

You don't want to go into a head-to-head discussion.

[bukowski81]

You don't want to go into a head-to-head discussion.

Theres no head to head discussion. Duncan is a PF/C, Kobe a SG. Duncan head to heads are against Shaq, Gasol, Bynum and Odom

[RRR3]

You don't want to go into a head-to-head discussion.

Duncan averages 25/14/4 with 2+ blocks per game against Kobe's teams in the playoffs.

[Electric Slide]

When Kobe has better numbers than another player, Kobe fans use numbers relentlessly.

When Kobe has inferior numbers than another player (Lebron), Kobe fans don't want to use stats at all and discredit the meaning of it.

[cotdt]

lol at these PER stat nerds. and lol at those using it to compare different positions.

[fpliii]

WS, WS/48, individual ORtg and individual DRtg are all contrived stats calculated from box score numbers (same with OWS and DWS). TS% is great, but the rest not so much. Team ORtg, team DRtg, are both great (if your guy is in a lot if games/plays heavy minutes, which stars do). So are TRB%, AST%, etc. Play-by-play metrics like RAPM have to be the most trustworthy.

[COnDEMnED]

Let's take a look at some cold, hard numbers (Source: Basketball Reference)

This has been beat to death, do we really need to get into this again?

[TonyMontana]

Good stats.

But when your comparing Shaq/Tim and to Kobe you don't even need to go that route it's painfully obvious.

Shaq/Kobe

-Both of these guys played their primes together. And yes Kobe in 2001 was as good as any Kobe ever. Shaq was CLEARLY the alpha on that team and this made Kobe butthurt. Shaq was the one coaches gameplanned for, Shaq was the one giving opposing teams nightmares, Shaq was the one winning the Finals MVPs.

And finally how each of them individually impacted the Lakers W/L.

Lakers record from 97-04

With Kobe: 284-126(.692)
W/O Kobe*: 32-10(.762)

With Shaq: 293-110(.727)
Without Shaq*: 23-25(.479)

*= only counting games where they didn't play but the other star played. 2-6 record with none playing.

And people think Kobe was better than Shaq? Guess the Finals MVPs weren't conclusive enough.

Kobe/Tim

-People say Kobe owned Duncan in the playoffs. Whenever Kobes beaten Tim in the playoffs it's because hes had the best team in the league BY FAR. Prime Shaq from 00-04, and then the Lakers were on a different planet than all the other western conference teams from 08-10. Boston was their only competition. I'm not impressed.

Kobe has never won a single playoff series in his career as an underdog.

In 3 years of Kobes prime years, he missed the playoffs, and lost in the first round twice.

Can you imagine a team with Prime Shaq or Prime Duncan not being able to win a single series in 3 years while being coached by Phil Jackson and with Lamar Odom? Me neither, these guys impact the game much more.