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Old 07-19-2018, 04:43 AM   #16
MrFonzworth
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Default Re: 2018 Ingram vs. 1989 Pippen (2nd year players) and what that tells us about Lebron/MJ

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3ball
The bad boys beat much better teams, which proves they're better

And the bad boys had 3-time all-stars at every starting spot.. The warriors don't have that

The warriors are on the same level as the stacked 80's team's (lakers/celtics/pistons).. they aren't above them - nothing supports that - not the teams they beat nor their players' accolades
No they didn't, but GSW do Dumars wasn't a 3 time all star, Rodman only has 2 in his career. Klay is a 9 time all star. Cousins is a 6 time all star. Curry is a 5 time all star, Klay is a 4 time all star. Dray is a 3 time all star. All five were all stars last season. That Detroit team didn't have an MVP leading their team, let alone 2. You're blatantly lying with arbitrary arguments

GS is easily above the any Pistons team from any era, both individually and as a team. How many of the Pistons teams swept their conference? How about only losing 1 game in the entire playoffs? How about winning 70+ games?
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Old 07-19-2018, 04:53 AM   #17
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Default Re: 2018 Ingram vs. 1989 Pippen (2nd year players) and what that tells us about Lebron/MJ

This thread is the lowest of the low for Insidehoops. I want to congratulate 3ball for having the most retarded take in the history of the internet. Ingram > Pippen, now I've seen it all.
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Old 07-19-2018, 06:17 AM   #18
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Default Re: 2018 Ingram vs. 1989 Pippen (2nd year players) and what that tells us about Lebron/MJ

So the Lakers.....should beat the Warriors...because they have 3rd year Brandon Ingram...

And you sincerely wonder why people think you just come here to troll.
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Old 07-19-2018, 06:51 AM   #19
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Default Re: 2018 Ingram vs. 1989 Pippen and what that tells us about Lebron/MJ

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Originally Posted by NBAGOAT

Oh man this type of terrible transitive property thinking can be used against you 100 different ways. Easiest one, the 94 bulls were one bad hue Hollins call away from beating the Knicks.

The Knicks just a year ago were 1 Charles smith layup away from winning the series in 7. So therefore, the 94 bulls are super close to the 93 version amirite.

Pippen's foul on Hubert Davis was in game 5, and so was Charles Smith's bricks.. so neither play was anywhere near the series-clinching play

Regardless, it's well-known that the 80's Lakers/Celtics/Pistons were all neck-and-neck, and their numerous close series demonstrated that over and over..

So if the Pistons were right there with the goat Lakers/Celtics, then they're right there with the warriors too, and lebron needs to play them as tight as 90' mj played the bad boys (which was basically beat them and win the ring, if not for pip's once-in-a-lifetime choke)
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Old 07-19-2018, 07:06 AM   #20
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Default Re: 2018 Ingram vs. 1989 Pippen (2nd year players) and what that tells us about Lebron/MJ

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Originally Posted by MrFonzworth

No they didn't, but GSW do Dumars wasn't a 3 time all star, Rodman only has 2 in his career.

dumars was a six-time all-star.. every starter had 3+ all-star appearances except rodman, who had 2 appearances and 2 dpoy's

the pistons also had arguably THE goat defense and beat dynasties

again, the warriors don't have this much... and cousins is coming off a career-turning injury


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Fonzworth


GS is easily above the any Pistons team from any era, both individually and as a team.

How many of the Pistons teams swept their conference? How about only losing 1 game in the entire playoffs? How about winning 70+ games?

Except the pistons beat better teams, had relatively equal player accolades, and had a better defense

The stuff about sweeping your conference is moot because I don't see mj or bird in that conference

And 70 games? Are you serious? They weren't champions.. they'd rather win it all than just 70
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Old 07-19-2018, 08:00 AM   #21
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Default Re: 2018 Ingram vs. 1989 Pippen (2nd year players) and what that tells us about Lebron/MJ

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3ball
dumars was a six-time all-star.. every starter had 3+ all-star appearances except rodman, who had 2 appearances and 2 dpoy's

the pistons also had arguably THE goat defense and beat dynasties

again, the warriors don't have this much... and cousins is coming off a career-turning injury



Except the pistons beat better teams, had relatively equal player accolades, and had a better defense

The stuff about sweeping your conference is moot because I don't see mj or bird in that conference

And 70 games? Are you serious? They weren't champions.. they'd rather win it all than just 70
Dumars wasn't a 3 time all star in 1990. Rodman had the same amount of DPOYs than Dray does. Warriors win off of accolades by a wide margin, it's not even comparable, and bringing up future accomplishments that occured after 1990 is laughable. It's the same as saying that Pistons are better because the Warriors currently don't have anyone on the team that's in the HOF 2 MVPs in their prime vs. 0 MVPs of the entire franchise, and you're trying to argue that those Pistons are more accomplished individually

Not even worth arguing after that, the worst part is that you're dead serious
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Old 07-19-2018, 08:06 AM   #22
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Default Re: 2018 Ingram vs. 1989 Pippen (2nd year players) and what that tells us about Lebron/MJ

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Originally Posted by Kblaze8855

So the Lakers.....should beat the Warriors...because they have 3rd year Brandon Ingram...

Only if Lebron is as good as Jordan..

if Ingram becomes an all-star as pippen did in year 3, then why shouldn't lebron play the warriors to a stand-still like mj did the bad boys? (if he's as good as mj)

Seriously, what's the difference?..

(yeah sure, I get that you can argue the warriors are a better team, but I can argue that the pistons' superior defense, comp, and relatively equal player accolades makes THEM better.. so that aspect of this is moot - they're both dynasties)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kblaze8855

And you sincerely wonder why people think you just come here to troll.

this guy ain't mj or anywhere near.. ultimately, you can't develop dynasty teamwork when you're team-hopping all the time.. so he's still getting spanked by dynasties late into his prime, instead of BEING the dynasty like other greats that stayed with their team, i.e. curry, kobe, mj, duncan, magic, bird, hakeem, etc...

and we hold this guy to a lower standard - mj was required to elevate teammates to be considered better than bird/magic, while lebron gets to hop onto teams favored to make the Finals in year 1, thereby not elevating shit..

Of course - his lack of good teamwork and teammate elevation stems from his style of play - specifically, his abnormal ball-dominance from the forward position was proven by espn to marginalize teammates..
.

Last edited by 3ball : 07-19-2018 at 08:45 AM.
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Old 07-19-2018, 08:44 AM   #23
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Default Re: 2018 Ingram vs. 1989 Pippen (2nd year players) and what that tells us about Lebron/MJ

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Originally Posted by MrFonzworth

Dumars wasn't a 3 time all star in 1990. Rodman had the same amount of DPOYs than Dray does. Warriors win off of accolades by a wide margin, it's not even comparable, and bringing up future accomplishments that occured after 1990 is laughable. It's the same as saying that Pistons are better because the Warriors currently don't have anyone on the team that's in the HOF 2 MVPs in their prime vs. 0 MVPs of the entire franchise, and you're trying to argue that those Pistons are more accomplished individually

Not even worth arguing after that, the worst part is that you're dead serious

The accolades are close - the 90' pistons had 18 all-star games versus 22 for the 19' warriors, but the pistons' played better comp and defense (I didn't count cousins because he might not play, or play much)

Ultimately, both teams are dynasties so it can be argued either way - the warriors dominate their competition more, but they play weaker comp and defense

Again, if MJ took a dynasty 6 games with 2nd year pippen/ingram, then Lebron must do at least that with the third year version.. and if the 3rd year ingram becomes an all-star like pippen did, then why shouldn't lebron beat a dynasty like mj nearly did with 3rd year pippen?

And if you're so addicted to overrating the warriors, then what about the rockets?.. should lebron be expected to beat the rockets with 3rd year ingram, or are they better than the dynasty bad boys too?
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Old 07-19-2018, 08:59 AM   #24
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Default Re: 2018 Ingram vs. 1989 Pippen (2nd year players) and what that tells us about Lebron/MJ

Ingram has more potential to be a star than Pippen did at the time, especially under the modern NBA rules. As far as I can see, Lebron is embracing the young core and will actually allow them to develop into their own, which will be a key to their success.

As much shit as we give Bran for turning good players into spot-up shooters, he's smart enough to realize that he won't be able to keep up with the new NBA guys for long, and is actually looking to adapt to playing a different role for his team to succeed, which I'm all for. He saw what Jordan and Kobe did in their 30s once they started to decline, he's played off-ball before and should embrace that role again.
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Old 07-19-2018, 09:10 AM   #25
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Default Re: 2018 Ingram vs. 1989 Pippen (2nd year players) and what that tells us about Lebron/MJ

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3ball
Only if Lebron is as good as Jordan..

if Ingram becomes an all-star as pippen did in year 3, then why shouldn't lebron play the warriors to a stand-still like mj did the bad boys? (if he's as good as mj)

Seriously, what's the difference?..

(yeah sure, I get that you can argue the warriors are a better team, but I can argue that the pistons' superior defense, comp, and relatively equal player accolades makes THEM better.. so that aspect of this is moot - they're both dynasties)



this guy ain't mj or anywhere near.. ultimately, you can't develop dynasty teamwork when you're team-hopping all the time.. so he's still getting spanked by dynasties late into his prime, instead of BEING the dynasty like other greats that stayed with their team, i.e. curry, kobe, mj, duncan, magic, bird, hakeem, etc...

and we hold this guy to a lower standard - mj was required to elevate teammates to be considered better than bird/magic, while lebron gets to hop onto teams favored to make the Finals in year 1, thereby not elevating shit..

Of course - his lack of good teamwork and teammate elevation stems from his style of play - specifically, his abnormal ball-dominance from the forward position was proven by espn to marginalize teammates..
.

That "This happened so that should" shit doesnt even work in the same era...sometimes same season. Much less 30 years apart with entirely different teams.

Carlos Boozer beat the 07 Warriors with one all star teammate....in 5 games with a team that won 40 something games. Dirk had one all star teammate...lost to the same Warriors in 6 games after his team won 67 games. And?

Moses, Doc, Toney, Cheeks, and Bobby Jones sweep Magic and Kareem with 2 additional all stars and Mcadoo and Cooper off the bench. But Michael Ray Richardson beats them in 5...no all stars at all.

If this "_____ took _____ to 7 so why shouldnt ____" shit doesnt hold up far as showing which individual is better at basketball in the same time vs the same lineups....why on earth would a rational person thinks it gives accurate results 30 years apart considering two teams that never so much as shared a court or a single set of rules?

With all the perfectly valid reasons MJ is better than Lebron why are you forever driving 40 miles out into the woods to fetch some bullshit to make your case?

You cant confine the argument to 2 players. If the logic is sound for them its sound for everyone. And it most definitely isnt.
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Old 07-19-2018, 09:12 AM   #26
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Default Re: 2018 Ingram vs. 1989 Pippen (2nd year players) and what that tells us about Lebron/MJ

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3ball
The accolades are close - the 90' pistons had 18 all-star games versus 22 for the 19' warriors, but the pistons' played better comp and defense (I didn't count cousins because he might not play, or play much)

Ultimately, both teams are dynasties so it can be argued either way - the warriors dominate their competition more, but they play weaker comp and defense

Again, if MJ took a dynasty 6 games with 2nd year pippen/ingram, then Lebron must do at least that with the third year version.. and if the 3rd year ingram becomes an all-star like pippen did, then why shouldn't lebron beat a dynasty like mj nearly did with 3rd year pippen?

And if you're so addicted to overrating the warriors, then what about the rockets?.. should lebron be expected to beat the rockets with 3rd year ingram, or are they better than the dynasty bad boys too?
So under your criteria, the Warriors STLL have more total all star appearances after disregarding Cousins, and completely overlooking the 3 total MVPs they have?

I'm not overrating the Warriors, I stated nothing but facts. And here you are shifting the goal posts and trying to derail your own thread by shifting the topic to the Rockets
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Old 07-19-2018, 09:15 AM   #27
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Default Re: 2018 Ingram vs. 1989 Pippen (2nd year players) and what that tells us about Lebron/MJ

Quote:
Originally Posted by ImKobe
Ingram has more potential to be a star than Pippen did at the time,

Exactly - he was a much bigger prospect coming out of college and is further along than pippen after 2 seasons

And if the 3rd year ingram becomes an all-star like pippen did, then why shouldn't lebron beat a dynasty like mj nearly did with 3rd year pippen?

Or what about the rockets?.. surely lebron should be expected to beat the rockets with ingram - the rockets arent better than the bad boys
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Old 07-19-2018, 09:18 AM   #28
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Default Re: 2018 Ingram vs. 1989 Pippen (2nd year players) and what that tells us about Lebron/MJ

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3ball
Exactly - he was a much bigger prospect coming out of college and is further along than pippen after 2 seasons

And if the 3rd year ingram becomes an all-star like pippen did, then why shouldn't lebron beat a dynasty like mj nearly did with 3rd year pippen?

Or what about the rockets?.. surely lebron should be expected to beat the rockets with ingram - the rockets arent better than the bad boys
Except the Pistons were no where near as talented as the current Warriors with 6 all star caliber players
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Old 07-19-2018, 09:53 AM   #29
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Default Re: 2018 Ingram vs. 1989 Pippen (2nd year players) and what that tells us about Lebron/MJ

I don't understand the argument nor premise of this thread.

Should Lebron be expected to push the Warriors? Absolutely not. Put him on the Rockets and they'd still lose. Lebron's style of play isn't conducive to stopping the Warriors as they are currently constructed. They have his number, end of story.
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Old 07-19-2018, 10:29 AM   #30
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Default Re: 2018 Ingram vs. 1989 Pippen (2nd year players) and what that tells us about Lebron/MJ

This is the most autistic thread that's probably ever been made on ISH
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