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  1. #1
    NBA Legend and Hall of Famer 3ball's Avatar
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    Default I found something for MJ haters so they don't look bad when they post

    Someone made a comprehensive list of counter-arguments to the various myths new fans have created to diminish MJ's star.

    http://nobodytouchesjordan.blogspot.ca


    [COLOR="darkred"]This is not my site or information.. I did not create this[/COLOR].. But it's a must-read for MJ-bashers so they don't get owned by people with superior knowledge of the history and what happened.

    For example - let's say you feel like posting about how MJ faced weak teams, weak defenders, or weak defenses - I would recommend chapters 3, 4, and 5 from that site.. If you don't read those chapters, you risk getting owned by someone that did.

    And I would like to add a couple chapters myself:

    [COLOR="Navy"]Chapter X[/COLOR]: Today's paint-camping ban (defensive 3 seconds) and zones allowed outside the paint vs. previous eras' legal paint-camping and no-spacing

    [COLOR="Navy"]Chapter Y[/COLOR]: Spacing 101, including today's weakside spacing that reduces the number of strongside defenders

    [COLOR="Navy"]Chapter Z[/COLOR]: A comparison of strongside scenarios: WITH weakside spacing vs. WITHOUT weakside spacing
    .
    Last edited by 3ball; 08-06-2015 at 03:05 PM.

  2. #2
    Lol RRR3's Avatar
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    Default Re: I found something for MJ haters so they don't look bad when they post

    We don't hate MJ, we hate your posts.

  3. #3
    NBA Superstar
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    Default Re: I found something for MJ haters so they don't look bad when they post

    Quote Originally Posted by RRR3
    We don't hate MJ, we hate your posts.
    X1000

    Everyone loves or at least respects MJ. Everyone despises you or at least wants you to fall very ill.

  4. #4
    College superstar Rose'sACL's Avatar
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    Default Re: I found something for MJ haters so they don't look bad when they post

    according to you Coaches like stretch 4s in today's game for no reason.

    We all saw how warriors didn't need to double lebron at all because they were close to paint anyways because of mozgov and TT can be left unguarded outside the paint unlike the 90s when you had to defend guys like rodman even if they moved to 3 point line because of illegal defense.

  5. #5
    sahelanthropus fpliii's Avatar
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    Default Re: I found something for MJ haters so they don't look bad when they post

    RIP the clear-out era.

  6. #6
    NBA Legend and Hall of Famer 3ball's Avatar
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    Default Re: I found something for MJ haters so they don't look bad when they post

    Quote Originally Posted by fpliii
    RIP the clear-out era.
    Chapter Y about weakside spacing is for you.

    You're the one that first bragged to me about the strongside flood, not knowing that it only became necessary with the advent of weakside spacing.

  7. #7
    truth serum sdot_thadon's Avatar
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    Default Re: I found something for MJ haters so they don't look bad when they post

    Yeah I doubt anyone hates Mj, it's just you.

  8. #8
    College superstar Rose'sACL's Avatar
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    Default Re: I found something for MJ haters so they don't look bad when they post

    Quote Originally Posted by 3ball
    Chapter Y about weakside spacing is for you.

    You're the one that first bragged to me about the strongside flood, not knowing that it only became necessary with the advent of weakside spacing.
    just tell me one thing. if rodman moved near the 3 point line, can his defender leave him and shadow double MJ in the 90s?
    Don't confuse hard double teams with shadow doubling.

    Shadow doubling is allowed now unlike the 90s when it was illegal.

  9. #9
    sahelanthropus fpliii's Avatar
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    Default Re: I found something for MJ haters so they don't look bad when they post

    Quote Originally Posted by 3ball
    Chapter Y about weakside spacing is for you.

    You're the one that first bragged to me about the strongside flood, not knowing that it only became necessary with the advent of weakside spacing.
    Please don't put words in my mouth my dude. I never denied that improved offensive strategy required defensive strategy to evolve as well. Rudy T and Thibs were both ahead of their time (Saunders deserves an HM too, first guy to take advantage of the elimination of illegal defense restrictions).

  10. #10
    truth serum sdot_thadon's Avatar
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    Default Re: I found something for MJ haters so they don't look bad when they post

    Quote Originally Posted by 3ball
    Chapter Y about weakside spacing is for you.

    You're the one that first bragged to me about the strongside flood, not knowing that it only became necessary with the advent of weakside spacing.
    So wait you mean to tell me they devised a defense to affect strongside 1st options only only to counter weakside shooters?

  11. #11
    NBA Legend and Hall of Famer 3ball's Avatar
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    Default Re: I found something for MJ haters so they don't look bad when they post

    Quote Originally Posted by sdot_thadon
    So wait you mean to tell me they devised a defense to affect strongside 1st options only only to counter weakside shooters?
    Well, I must admit, for some people, it's not worth the read if they aren't capable of understanding it...

    for whatever reason - it could be poor reading comprhension, any number of psychological afflictions, or just sheer denial.

  12. #12
    truth serum sdot_thadon's Avatar
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    Default Re: I found something for MJ haters so they don't look bad when they post

    Quote Originally Posted by 3ball
    Well, I must admit, for some people, it's not worth the read if they aren't capable of understanding it...

    for whatever reason - it could be poor reading comprhension, any number of psychological afflictions, or just sheer denial.
    What's incredible is you can't see how weird that sounds.

    The spacing wasn't possible before rule changes according to non other than yourself. After rule changes defense were able to load up on the strong side, (an outstanding tactic when non shooters were on the floor I might add)to limit great scorers or totally negate average ones. The counter to that became having people who can shoot the ball on the floor at every possible postiton. I don't know where the hell you got the idea that strongside defenses were meant to counter guys on the weakside. Weakside shooting was emphasized as a counter to the floods. Where do you think stretch 4's came from? Again let's break it down to the lowest compound.

    No zone= no floods, no need for the same type of spacing.
    Zone legal= floods legal, new way to make space needed.

  13. #13
    NBA Legend and Hall of Famer 3ball's Avatar
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    Default Re: I found something for MJ haters so they don't look bad when they post

    Quote Originally Posted by sdot_thadon

    The spacing wasn't possible before rule changes
    The rule changes have nothing to do with spacing... Spacing = 3-point shooting.

    In 1985, there was no spacing because teams only attempted 2 three-pointers per game.. But by 2002 (prior to rule changes), there was a lot of spacing because teams were attempting 18 three-pointers per game.


    Quote Originally Posted by sdot_thadon


    [COLOR="Red"]After rule changes, defenses were allowed to load up on the strong side[/COLOR]

    Defenses only need to "load up" the strongside if there aren't enough defenders ON the strongside.

    In the picture below, 3-point shooters on the weakside (weakside spacing) have drawn defenders away from the strongside.. If Noah doesn't leave #20 Mosgov and flood to the strongside, the strongside will only have 2 defenders on it.






    Otoh, they didn't shoot 3-pointers in the 80's, so there was no weakside spacing to draw defenders away from the strongside - the strongside was ALREADY FLOODED with all 5 defenders, as seen below:





    Does it LOOK like a strongside flood is necessary above??

    Of course not - a strongside flood isn't even POSSIBLE when all defenders are already on the strongside.

    So it's dumb to brag about today's rules that allow strongside floods, when previous eras played the game in a fashion where the strongside was already flooded at all times.
    .
    Last edited by 3ball; 07-31-2015 at 12:59 PM.

  14. #14
    Knicks all da way imdaman99's Avatar
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    Default Re: I found something for MJ haters so they don't look bad when they post

    3ball, how do you feel about MJ putting up a dud down 0-2 against the Knicks in 93? What was his statline?

    Don't ignore this post, or I will consider you a fraud.

  15. #15
    NBA Legend and Hall of Famer 3ball's Avatar
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    Default Re: I found something for MJ haters so they don't look bad when they post

    Quote Originally Posted by imdaman99
    3ball, how do you feel about MJ putting up a dud down 0-2 against the Knicks in 93? What was his statline?

    Don't ignore this post, or I will consider you a fraud.
    After Game 2, he still needed 1 more game to figure out the Knicks.

    The Knicks had sealed the paint, which was quite common in that era due to legal paint-camping and no 3-point shooting/spacing - defenders didn't have to occupy the perimeter and could congest the middle of the floor/paint area instead.

    For this reason, IT WAS NOT UNCOMMON for guys like athletic wings like MJ to be forced to shoot jumpshots... So that's what MJ did - in Game 4, he scored 54 points on ALL JUMPSHOTS - that proves he's GOAT - what guy can score 54 points in a huge playoff game against a goat defense on all jumpers?... Only MJ... He's the only guy in history capable of this (maybe Bird, actually, but that's it)

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