Why can't dominant Point Guards win ships?

[Odinn]

As for top 10 PGs ever;
(Magic, Zeke, Big O, Kidd, Stockton, Payton, Frazier, Nash, Archibald, Cousy)
7x MVPs
4x FMVPs
7x the best player on a championship teams

As for top 10 Cs ever;
(Kareem, Shaq, Russell, Wilt, Hakeem, Moses, DRob, Mikan, Reed, Walton)
23x MVPs
13x FMVPs
27x the best player on a championship teams

[blacknapalm]

As for top 10 PGs ever;
(Magic, Zeke, Big O, Kidd, Stockton, Payton, Frazier, Nash, Archibald, Cousy)
7x MVPs
4x FMVPs
7x the best player on a championship teams

As for top 10 Cs ever;
(Kareem, Shaq, Russell, Wilt, Hakeem, Moses, DRob, Mikan, Reed, Walton)
23x MVPs
13x FMVPs
27x the best player on a championship teams

ball game. a dominant big is just more valuable in this league over a dominant PG and even if they change the rules to benefit perimeter players, i can't really see that trend changing. dominant bigs just alter games in more ways. problem is...where is the next dominant back to the basket big?

[ThaRegul8r]

i dont think Magic qualifies as your typical PG seeing as how the guy is 6'9". Magic is just another example of how if you're big, have a hell of a BBIQ and are a skilled player, you can play this game at a level that few can.

But "Big" being the key before anything else though.

This is ridiculous. No one said anything about "your typical PG." The OP said "a team led by a PG can never win a title." Magic Johnson is a dominant PG who led his teams to titles.

People posting Thomas and Magic: He's talking about now. No dominant PG has won a chip in a long time.

That's not what the OP said:

Its always been said a team led by a PG can never win a title...

why is that

He said "a team led by a PG can never win a title." Never means never. Not ever. Contrary to popular belief, "ever" encompasses more than "now."

[bluechox2]

i would say billups lead that pistons team

[BoutPractice]

Maybe Billups was the leader, but their amazing defensive frontcourt was the main reason they won.

[Noof]

...

[guy]

The league is relatively young and a lot of the teams that have won usually win multiple. If you really think about it, only about 25 players since after Mikan have actually "led" a team to a title as the clear best player, 2 being PGs. If that claim was distributed evenly, it would be about 5 PGs. 2 vs 5 isn't that huge a difference.

[Meticode]

He could have easily been replaced by a Kevin Johnson, Tim Hardaway, Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Mark Price, Steve Nash, John Stockton, Rod Strickland.

You could easily be replaced by PleezeBelieve with what you're talking. Get my drift!?

[I LUV KOBE]

If Rose become healthy for the rest of his career, I think he has the chance to win ship as a dominant PG..

[Owl]

I don't think Isiah contradicts the prior posters point that most pgs don't influence the play enough on both ends to be the best player. Isiah by the time he won the titles was one of a number of cogs (Dumars, Laimbeer and Rodman are at least close to him in terms of impact and the team went 9 and then 8 deep).

because there's more parity between PG's in the league. there's a plethora of talented, game changing PG's. they negate each other. a quality big + a good enough PG? still a premium that has more ways of taking over the course of a series. moreover, a defensive big will always have a bigger impact on the game on that end of the floor.

the next dominant back to the basket? he's going to be huge as the dearth of the big man today is going to let him go unchecked.

the last great PG to win it all was probably parker in 2007. that was vs. an overmatched lebron team. btw, duncan was still pretty good then. before that? you probably have to go all the way back to magic. i don't count rondo in '08 because that was clearly KG's and pierce's team. rondo was good then, but not great.

This is a good point. It's harder for a pg to distance themselves from the pack because there are generally more good pgs (because there is a much larger pool of potential pgs in the population) conversely there's a much greater chance for one team to have a large advantage at the center position because there are so few players with the required physique, agility, co-ordination and skills to play the position.

Though for what it's worth the center position is okay depth wise at the moment, certainly a lot better than it was a decade ago with Shaq so much better than the rest of the field.

So you get plenty of good pgs, recent examples being Rondo, Parker and Billups, winning titles, but not so many exceptional ones.

[Kevin_Gamble]

Why not? They just have to have the right cast and the right system. The Heat won a championship with Wade as a penetrate/kickout guy. Phoenix and Utah came close during the Jordan-years with offenses focused on the PG + Big pick & roll combo. Seattle came close with a PG-dominant offense. Those teams didn't lose because their offenses were PG-centered--they lost because they went up against Jordan and Pippen.

[DKLaker]

They aren't big enough to impact the game on both side the optimal would be to have a PG as second guy or /1b.

Right, this is a SG & SF league now......the other spots are not as important

[TheMan]

Its always been said a team led by a PG can never win a title...

why is that?

[nathanjizzle]

you guys actually believe this shit.

[AK47DR91]

OP still has a point. Not that you can't win with a dominant Point Guard but it's a whole lot harder to do than a dominant PF or C. It's a big man's game, always have and will always be even if the marketing media wants to market around SG's and SF's.

In Magic's case, even as a 6'9" point guard, he still had Kareem(Top 5 All-Time), Worthy, Scott, Cooper and Rambis as teammates.

Thomas' Bad Boy Pistons were 8 or 9 man deep team. Dumars, Rodman, Lambeer, Aguire, Vinnie Johnson, Mahorn, Salley and Edwards. Billups' 2004 squad was similar too.

Now you move into the SG's, stil somewhat the same case but less deep of a roster. Jordan still needed Pippen/Grant or Pippen/Rodman/Kukoc. Kobe needed Gasol/Bynum/Odom.

Wade in 2006 might be one of the rare feat where a Guard led his team to a title without a real stacked roster. But he also had Shaq, who was still the best center at the time.

We've seen 2000 Shaq, 1994 Hakeem and 1999 & 2003 Duncan win without much of a supporting case on 4 occasions. That's already 4 times more than we can say about Guards in similar cases(lack of supporting cast).