Why can't dominant Point Guards win ships?

[jack612blue]

Its always been said a team led by a PG can never win a title...

why is that

[ducktape]

[NewYorkNoPicks]

i think what you mean is shoot first point guards... the problem with them is despite their talents, one man can never do it alone, so if the guy with the ball in his hands most frequently shoots the most then obviously his teammates aren't contributing much.

shoot first point guards dont allow their teammates to contribute. a guy like Chris Paul could win though, he's a great balance of scoring and passing.

[cteach111]

i dont think Magic qualifies as your typical PG seeing as how the guy is 6'9". Magic is just another example of how if you're big, have a hell of a BBIQ and are a skilled player, you can play this game at a level that few can.

But "Big" being the key before anything else though.

[Real Men Wear Green]

i dont think Magic qualifies as your typical PG seeing as how the guy is 6'9". Magic is just another example of how if you're big, have a hell of a BBIQ and are a skilled player, you can play this game at a level that few can.

But "Big" being the key before anything else though.

They aren't big enough to impact the game on both side the optimal would be to have a PG as second guy or /1b.

[fpliii]

Offensive Usage / Defensive Usage Percentages over the past couple of seasons (by position):

PG - 21 / 13
SG - 20 / 12
SF - 18 / 14
PF - 19 / 19
C - 16 / 22

(sources: hoopdata and backpicks)

note that offensive usages don't add up to 100% because the positions aren't equal in depth due to asymmetric lineups, and defensive usages don't add up to 100% since some shots are unguarded

a PG can impact the game offensively quite a bit, but he can't do all that much defensively since he doesn't guard the paint and anchor a defense

recent champions have had sturdy bigs as defensive anchors most of the time, and the few teams that haven't (Bulls, Heat; Bad Boy Pistons and Big Three Celtics to a lesser extent) have had versatile 'positionless' wings who can guard multiple positions

[rufuspaul]

[Mach_3]

Beat me to it.

[WockaVodka]

Probably because most teams that build around PGs suck at it.

[Magic731]

Never underestimate the impact of a big man in a basketball game. The highest percentage shot in basketball is the dunk. Dunks become that much harder to do when you have a massive 7 footer putting his hands up, making it almost impossible to dunk the ball. So this big man takes away the highest percentage shot in basketball, and also lowers the percentage of other great shots such as the "million $" spot. This forces the other team to take lesser percentage shots and more often than not the team that shoots the highest percentage wins.

On the other end of the floor, a big 7 footer can generally pull off the dunk better and easier than anyone else. I mean, they are 7'0" tall with massive arms, the ball barely has to leave their hands for it to slide into the basket. These are all very high percentage shots, so when your number one offensive threat is a big man, the majority of your shots are going to be very high percentage looks.

Another thing big men dominate is rebounding. To win a game of basketball you need to score more than the other team. To score, you need to have possession of the ball. To get possession of the ball you can either steal it off the other team, force a turnover or rebound the ball. Since teams generally turn the ball over 10-15 times a game compared with 40-50 rebounds, rebounding the ball is the most effective way to gain possession of the ball.

If your team wins the rebound count and shoots a higher percentage from the field, you will win 95% of your games.

[fpliii]

Never underestimate the impact of a big man in a basketball game. The highest percentage shot in basketball is the dunk. Dunks become that much harder to do when you have a massive 7 footer putting his hands up, making it almost impossible to dunk the ball. So this big man takes away the highest percentage shot in basketball, and also lowers the percentage of other great shots such as the "million $" spot. This forces the other team to take lesser percentage shots and more often than not the team that shoots the highest percentage wins.

On the other end of the floor, a big 7 footer can generally pull off the dunk better and easier than anyone else. I mean, they are 7'0" tall with massive arms, the ball barely has to leave their hands for it to slide into the basket. These are all very high percentage shots, so when your number one offensive threat is a big man, the majority of your shots are going to be very high percentage looks.

Another thing big men dominate is rebounding. To win a game of basketball you need to score more than the other team. To score, you need to have possession of the ball. To get possession of the ball you can either steal it off the other team, force a turnover or rebound the ball. Since teams generally turn the ball over 10-15 times a game compared with 40-50 rebounds, rebounding the ball is the most effective way to gain possession of the ball.

If your team wins the rebound count and shoots a higher percentage from the field, you will win 95% of your games.

I agree with you for the most part, but of Dean Oliver's Four Factors (margins in eFG%, ORB%, TOV%, FT/FGA) which explain a good 99% of outcomes or so in games, FT/FGA margin is king (followed by eFG%, ORB%, TOV% in that order).

If you're going against a team with dominant bigs you have to do at least two of the following: shoot extremely efficiently from the perimeter compared to your opponent (3's and long 2's that draw out defensive anchor types), draw contact and go to the line more often than your opponent, and get out in transition without turning the ball over very frequently.

[stallionaire]

He looks hilarious.

[DStebb716]

People posting Thomas and Magic: He's talking about now. No dominant PG has won a chip in a long time. The last PG to win a championship while they were considered elite at the time?

Chauncey Billups? He's the best PG to win in the last 10 years...

[stallionaire]

Answer to the thread:

A pointguard's role is multi-faceted. He needs to be the floor general for his team, pass at a high level to find a good shot for his team, and they should have some scoring prowess.

They need to be able to do all of these things and if a pointguard is your first option, they need to do these things at a very high level. Most emphasis would be on scoring.

Their job is too spread out and if they lack even one of those skills, you could have A LOT of problems. Obviously there are exceptions. Magic Johnson won but Kareem says, "Hi."

A pointguard needs to have SOMEBODY with them to play their position at a high level to win. Asking a pointguard to do everything is a bad idea. You don't want them doing everything. You want them doing what their best at.

Allen Iverson was surrounded with crafty role players but he couldn't win because at the end of the day it all came down to him doing all his tasks amazingly.

[Artillery]

Point guards are usually the shortest guys on the court and, as a result, are the easiest to stop or neutralize come playoff time. Smarter to build a team around a dominant big man or wing player. Nash, Paul, DWill, and Rose have all failed to lead their teams to the finals. Even this year, we saw Tony Parker lead his team to conference finals and lose to a squad led by a forward.