The GOAT List: 2014 Edition

[G.O.A.T]

[FONT="Garamond"]The GOAT List:
Fifth Anniversary Edition[/FONT]



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It's the off-season and this years list is as ready as it's going to be. There are a few new editions, the Class of 2009, Blake Griffin, Steph Curry, James Harden etc. are now eligible for the list. I spent most of the past year researching the 1970's so there are significant changes in my views on some of those players. As always the toughest challenge is to find a way to rank the players as objectively as possible without devaluing the things I think make a great basketball player.

For the third consecutive year I am relying heavily on a tier system, the tier system has evolved as well. As of this moment I have 25 tiers of 10 or more players ranging from the all-time greats to role players. For this abridged version of the project I'll be focusing on the top 15 tiers, which covers a little over the top 200 players. I intend to move swiftly through the first 100 plus. Once I get to the top 100 I'll spend a little more time on each player, but I don't anticipate being as elaborate as I was on the 2009 Edition. Most of the stats and background information I posted back then is now very accessible. My focus this time will be on demonstrating the aspects of a players career/game/resume that have led to the ranking I've assigned them.

Please use this list as an opportunity to discuss and learn about these players and the portion of Basketball history each has helped shape as you like. Understand that rankings, no matter my or anyone else's efforts are still largely subjective and perhaps more important, entirely fluid. Any opinion worth hearing is one that has been shaped over time and likely has changed quite a bit. With that spirit in mind I am constantly changing my list and I value all of your feedback as a way of helping me better understand perspective I may not have considered or fully valued. Thanks and as always, enjoy.
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MISSION STATEMENT

[FONT="Garamond"]I believe in merit, I believe in motivation and I believe in competition. Greatness thusly, should be defined by achievement not by potential. I don't see the point of wondering how Mikan would do in the 1960's NBA. That was never something Mikan was going to have to deal with. To judge/rate/rank him based on a subjective evaluation of probable performance in an impossible hypothetical situation is not something I am going to do.

There is one common bond between all eras of basketball. Try and win the game by putting the ball in your opponents basket and defending your own basket. As the eras changed so did the rules, styles, philosophies, motives, everything surrounding that general objective. None of the changes are immediate, all are subtle and progressive. Players, coaches, organizations and fans all adjust over time at a different pace. The one's who set the pace typically excel regardless of the speed of the pack.

It's only important to be ahead of your time, not to be timeless. The second one is great for a legacy, but doesn't help you a bit in the moment.

The greatest handicap for a player of any given era when it comes to this list is information. Too much or too little can have a huge impact on how much a player is over or under rated. To consider any other factor beyond their control only serves to greater confuse the issue. For me to look at players from different eras there can be no bonus or penalty for when the player played. That is completely out of their control and therefore irrelevant when evaluating them.

That is not to say that all Championships, all awards etc. are equal. The subjective element of evaluating a basketball player is in considering the significance of what did happen. There are breaks good/bad as a part of the game, but that's where it stops. Example: McHale's foot injury in 1987 was a bad break for the Celtics. (literally) That's it. There is no, "if McHale doesn't get hurt the Celtics beat the Lakers and then Bird and Magic each have four rings..." etc etc etc.

You don't get to diminish a team or players actual achievement(s) with a subjective conclusion to a hypothetical.

Finally there is an element of humility necessarily for me to take myself seriously. You read a lot of people's opinions when you study the game like those of us who discuss these topics do. Sometimes you agree, sometimes you disagree, but it's important to consider all of them. I can't possibly always be right, but I have to think I am (until I really don't) or I can't possibly hope for my opinions to evolve. So with this in mind I generally trust the consensus or popular opinion until an argument otherwise sways me. (Happens a lot) I find that going about it the other way, I.E. trusting your eyes, instincts, hunch, will often lead to searching for validation more than information.[/FONT]
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[FONT="Trebuchet MS"]GOAT List Index: Part One[/FONT]

[FONT="Trebuchet MS"]
#212 - Stephen Curry - page one
#211 - Stephon Marbury - page one
#210 - Vin Baker - page one
#209 - Derrick Coleman - page one
#208 - Kevin Love - page two
#207 - LaMarcus Aldridge - page two
#206 - Otis Birdsong - page two
#205 - Jerry Stackhouse - page two
#204 - Dan Roundfield - page two
#203 - Terry Cummings - page two
#202 - Warren Jabali - page two
#201 - Jimmy Jones - page two
#200 - Carlos Boozer - page three
#199 - Antoine Walker - page three[/FONT]

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[FONT="Trebuchet MS"]#198 - Dick McGuire - page three
#197 - Bill Bridges - page three
#196 - Larry Nance - page four
#195 - Rudy LaRusso - page four
#194 - Louie Dampier - page four
#193 - Michael Finley - page four
#192 - Red Kerr - page four
#191 - Paul Silas - page four
#190 - Charlie Scott - page four
#189 - Mark Aguirre - page four
#188 - Larry Kenon - page four
#187 - Shawn Marion - page four
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[FONT="Trebuchet MS"]#186 - Jerry Sloan - page five
#185 - Norm Van Lier - page five
#184 - Richard Hamilton - page five
#183 - Ron Artest - page five
#182 - Paul Seymour - page five
#181 - Bobby Wanzer - page five
#180 - Clyde Lovellette - page five
#179 - Tom Gola - page five
#178 - Larry Foust - page five
#177 - Harry Gallatin - page five
#176 - Rolando Blackman - page five
#175 - Buck Williams - page five
#174 - Bailey Howell - page five
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[FONT="Trebuchet MS"]#173 - Micheal Ray Richardson - page five
#172 - Doug Collins - page five
#171 - Peja Stojakovic - page six
#170 - Phil Smith - page six
#169 - Gene Shue - page six
#168 - Larry Johnson - page six
#167 - Truck Robinson - page six
#166 - Phil Chenier - page six
#165 - Gilbert Arenas - page six
#164 - James Harden - page six
#163 - Joakim Noah - page six
#162 - Blake Griffin - page six
#161 - Brad Daugherty - page six
#160 - Alex Groza - page six
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[FONT="Trebuchet MS"]
#159 - Joe Johnson - page seven
#158 - Baron Davis - page seven
#157 - Latrell Sprewell - page eight
#156 - Andrew Toney - page eight
#155 - Arnie Risen - page eight
#154 - Rajon Rondo - page eight
#153 - Ralph Sampson - page nine
#152 - Sam Cassell - page nine
#151 - Gus Williams - page nine
#150 - Willie Wise - page ten
#149 - Roger Brown - page ten
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[G.O.A.T]

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[FONT="Trebuchet MS"]
#148 Zach Randolph - page ten
#147 Elton Brand - page ten
#146 Richie Guerin - page ten
#145 Glen Rice - page ten
#144 Deron Williams - page eleven
#143 Bob Love - page eleven
#142 Jack Twyman - page twelve
#141 Lou Hudson - page twelve
#140 Tom Chambers - page twelve
#139 Walter Davis - page twelve
#138 Russell Westbrook - page twelve
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[FONT="Trebuchet MS"]
#137 Horace Grant - page twelve
#136 Ed Macauley - page twelve
#135 Norm Nixon - page thirteen
#134 Maurice Cheeks - page thirteen
#133 Chet Walker - page thirteen
#132 Rasheed Wallace - page fourteen
#131 Bobby Jones - page fourteen
#130 Dan Issel - page fourteen
#129 Jack Sikma - page fourteen
#128 Bill Laimbeer - page fourteen
#127 Vern Mikkelsen - page sixteen
#126 Slater Martin - page sixteen
#125 Chris Bosh - page sixteen
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[FONT="Trebuchet MS"]
#124 George Yardley - page seventeen
#123 Neil Johnston - page seventeen
#122 Max Zaslofsky - page seventeen
#121 Walt Bellamy - page seventeen
#120 Zelmo Beaty - page eighteen
#119 Mitch Richmond - page eighteen
#118 Dikembe Mutombo - page nineteen
#117 Vince Carter - page nineteen
#116 Shawn Kemp - page nineteen



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[G.O.A.T]

Saved for index and Updates

[MP.Trey]

G.O.A.T's on fire with these lists and shit.

[RRR3]

Super cute goat picture in OP


I miss my goat

[G.O.A.T]

[FONT="Book Antiqua"]#212 Wardell Stephen Curry II[/FONT]
Tier Classification: Second Tier Stars
Years Played (Quality Prime Seasons): 5 (4)
Primary Role: Lead Player on Middle of the Pack Team
Prime Averages: 21-4-7-2 on 47/44/90

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[FONT="Comic Sans MS"]-One of the up and coming stars in today's games and a player so smooth he's already making a case as one of the top shooters of all-time. This second generation star is the biggest basketball star in the Bay Area since Run TMC and the Warriors are contenders for the first time in even longer. Combining solid ball handling and an unselfish nature with that deadly range and lightning quick release, plus the ability to play on or off the ball, Curry is one of the best offensive guards of his generation. After a coming out party in the 2013 playoffs, the 2013-14 season saw Curry make his first all-star team, garner All-NBA second team honors and finish sixth in the MVP voting. As Golden State continues their commitment to winning, Curry figures to be a star on the rise for years to come.[/FONT]

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[FONT="Book Antiqua"]#211 Stephon Xavier Marbury[/FONT]
Tier Classification: Second Tier Stars
Years Played (Quality Prime Seasons): 13 (8)
Primary Role: Lead Player on Borderline Playoff Teams
Prime Averages: 21-3-8-1 on 43/33/78

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[FONT="Comic Sans MS"]-A part of the famous 1996 draft class, Starbury seemed headed for greatness. Beginning his career teamed with Kevin Garnett in Minnesota, the Timberwolves seemed to have their Stockton/Malone for the next generation. However the spotlight wasn't big enough for both and Marbury forced his way out. From there it was a vagabonds journey of mixed success. From 1999 to 2004 he played for four teams, Minnesota, New Jersey, Phoenix and New York. He made all-star and all-NBA teams at the middle two, but almost never seen the playoffs. In total, five first round defeats are the extent of his playoff resume, never getting further than a sixth game. Still with multiple all-star and all-NBA seasons and seven seasons of 20 and 8 production, it's hard to forget how good he was, even if all we seem to remember is how good we all thought he could have been. [/FONT]

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[ArbitraryWater]

OP is G.O.A.T

[Wavves]

Awesome to see this back again. I loved reading the last one!

Great work already, looking forward to more as it comes!

[G.O.A.T]

[FONT="Book Antiqua"]#210 Vincent Lamont Baker [/FONT]
Tier Classification: Second Tier Stars
Years Played (Quality Prime Seasons): 13 (4)
Primary Role(s): 1A/1B on mostly below average teams
Prime Averages: 20-10-3-1 on 49/63

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[FONT="Comic Sans MS"]-Hartford University is not a place known for producing Basketball stars so when the Milwaukee Bucks selected him 8th overall in the 1993 draft ahead of other more well known forwards including George Lynch who had just led North Carolina to a National Championship, fans were underwhelmed to say the least. But it didn't take long for Vin to Win them over as the 6'11" 260 pound old school big man was an all-star by his second season and a 20/10 guy shortly after. However after four losing seasons with the Bucks, Baker was shipped as part of a three team trade that landed him in Seattle, Shawn Kemp in Cleveland and Terrell Brandon in Milwaukee. With the Sonics core mostly intact from their 1996 finals appearance, the Baker for Kemp swap brought stability and they won 61 games. But in the playoffs they fell behind 2-1 to a young and hungry Minnesota, won that series and then were smashed by the Lakers. Baker and the Sonics were all down hill from there. Injuries and a lack of conditioning returning to the lockout shortened 1999 season proved to be the end of Baker's run as an all-star. He played seven more seasons and retired in 2006.
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[FONT="Book Antiqua"]#209 Derrick D. Coleman [/FONT]
Tier Classification: Second Tier Stars
Years Played (Quality Prime Seasons): 15 (7)
Primary Role(s): Lead Player/2nd-3rd option on borderline playoff teams
Prime Averages: 19-10-3-2 on 45/29/77

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[FONT="Comic Sans MS"]-Back when Detroit used to roll out a ton of NBA talent, Derrick Coleman was among the best. Coming out of Syracuse as the #1 overall pick, D.C. was expected to take the New Jersey Nets to new heights. He clearly had the talent and four his first four seasons he averaged 20/10. But there was another side of him. He was whiny, he was lazy, he refused to be a leader and set a bad example, as a result his teams underachieved and his career feel off a cliff after he left New Jersey. The talent was still there, but the body was breaking down little by little. The shame of it all is he played on some talented teams too, but unfortunate circumstances or just Coleman's bad attitude spoiled them all. In New Jersey he played with Drazen Petrovic and Kenny Anderson, but Petrovic was killed tragically in 1993 and Anderson followed Coleman's script. In Philadelphia the young back court of Allen Iverson and Jerry Stackhouse was promising, but the team never got off the ground as injuries and a lack of chemistry forced that group to be broken up. His Hornet days he was 40 pounds too heavy, in his second stint with Philly three years too old. It just never came together for Coleman, like many of his generation. [/FONT]

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[ArbitraryWater]

I already think Curry is too low

[L.Kizzle]

I already think Curry is too low

I think he's too high.

[BuffaloBill]

Who the **** is Wardell Stephen Curry II



His name Steph Curry

[magnax1]

Who the **** is Wardell Stephen Curry II



His name Steph Curry

I prefer dell curry just cus it ****s with people.
This list is gonna be looonnnnngggg

[BuffaloBill]

I prefer dell curry just cus it ****s with people.
This list is gonna be looonnnnngggg

My mind just got blown

[L.Kizzle]

[FONT="Book Antiqua"]#212 Wardell Stephen Curry II[/FONT]
Tier Classification: Second Tier Stars
Years Played (Quality Prime Seasons): 5 (4)
Primary Role: Lead Player on Middle of the Pack Team
Prime Averages: 21-4-7-2 on 47/44/90

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[FONT="Comic Sans MS"]-One of the up and coming stars in today's games and a player so smooth he's already making a case as one of the top shooters of all-time. This second generation star is the biggest basketball star in the Bay Area since Run TMC and the Warriors are contenders for the first time in even longer. Combining solid ball handling and an unselfish nature with that deadly range and lightning quick release, plus the ability to play on or off the ball, Curry is one of the best offensive guards of his generation. After a coming out party in the 2013 playoffs, the 2013-14 season saw Curry make his first all-star team, garner All-NBA second team honors and finish sixth in the MVP voting. As Golden State continues their commitment to winning, Curry figures to be a star on the rise for years to come.[/FONT]

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[FONT="Book Antiqua"]#211 Stephon Xavier Marbury[/FONT]
Tier Classification: Second Tier Stars
Years Played (Quality Prime Seasons): 13 (8)
Primary Role: Lead Player on Borderline Playoff Teams
Prime Averages: 21-3-8-1 on 43/33/78

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[FONT="Comic Sans MS"]-A part of the famous 1996 draft class, Starbury seemed headed for greatness. Beginning his career teamed with Kevin Garnett in Minnesota, the Timberwolves seemed to have their Stockton/Malone for the next generation. However the spotlight wasn't big enough for both and Marbury forced his way out. From there it was a vagabonds journey of mixed success. From 1999 to 2004 he played for four teams, Minnesota, New Jersey, Phoenix and New York. He made all-star and all-NBA teams at the middle two, but almost never seen the playoffs. In total, five first round defeats are the extent of his playoff resume, never getting further than a sixth game. Still with multiple all-star and all-NBA seasons and seven seasons of 20 and 8 production, it's hard to forget how good he was, even if all we seem to remember is how good we all thought he could have been. [/FONT]

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With these two guards here (Starbury in particular) I wonder where the likes of Stevie Franchise (if he makes the list at all), Arenas, Baron Davis will end up on this list?

Off to a great star as usual.