"2011 Heat > 2012 Heat" Let's address this argument.

[Suguru101]

Let's take this argument apart piece by piece, since i see some people still argue it.

Team Identity/Offense/Role players:

2012 Shane Battier allowed Miami to play small ball with Bosh at center, which was the single biggest thing that changed Miami from a top heavy team which did not mesh on offense and frequently just took turns one on one ... to a team that surrounded LeBron and Wade with shooters, and a team that was suffocating and trap heavy on defense.

in 2011, Battier wasn't there, Haslem was coming off foot injury, Miller was coming off injury, Chalmers wasn't decent yet, Norris Cole wasn't in the league, so that left you with the corpse of Mike Bibby, Erik Dampier, a one foot out the door Ilgauskas playing rotation minutes.

In 2012 they were replaced with one of the best role players from the past decade in Shane Battier, a decent Chalmers who scored 25 in the Finals, Miller, healthier, Haslem, Norris Cole, James Jones almost didn't get off the bench because he wasn't needed.

Superstars:

2011 LeBron didn't have a good post game. That alone changes the entire dynamic of the entire Heat offense. If his shot was off, and the paint was packed and he couldn't drive, he was in trouble.

In 2012, he couldn't shoot from outside at all. Like, he was shooting around 18% from outside 14 feet. And he still dominated and averaged 28 ppg, because of the post game, which also forced teams to double team and left shooters to rain 3's.

That alone is a huge deference.

Wade was 90% healthy, and while he was better in 2011 by giving the Heat around 27-7-5 in the Finals, in 2012 he gave Miami 23-6-5... which also came from the fact that he gave up more shots to LeBron.

So the difference between 2011 Wade and 2012 Wade is not more impactful than the difference between 2011 no post game LeBron who averaged 18-7-7 to 2012 LeBron who averaged 29-10-7.


Underperforming LeBron:

A lot of people saying that the 2011 simply would have been better if LeBron played normally, and this is the point they misse; he didn't play up to standards not only because of whatever the hell was happening mentally, but because once Dallas played a really good zone defense, he didn't have a post game to counter the defense when his shot was't going in.

Seriously, what happens if you have 2012 LeBron, who dominated down low, being guarded by Barea and Terry in the post? Can you imagine? Well, 2011 LeBron was faced with that, and he didn't do shit, that's how mediocre his post game was back then.

So the argument "if he just would have" is just false. He didn't, he couldn't, he didn't have the mental aspect and the skill set.

Rant over.

[ArbitraryWater]

Wade's decline from top 3 in the World to borderline top 10, leaving that elite level, settles it for me...

they crushed the Celtics and Bulls, James & Wade closed them out perfectly, LeBron choked and they still went 6 games.

Lost 3 games up until the finals on excellent competition... a few plays away from going up 3-0 in the NBA finals, with Bron not playing too impressive.

[Suguru101]

Wade's decline from top 3 in the World to borderline top 10, leaving that elite level, settles it for me...

they crushed the Celtics and Bulls, James & Wade closed them out perfectly, LeBron choked and they still went 6 games.

Lost 3 games up until the finals on excellent competition.

So going from 27-6-5 to 23-6-5 Wade, is more important than LeBron getting a post game and being able to attack defenses in a way that he didn't depend on outside shooting? Also, role players like Battier allowed Miami to play small ball, which changed drastically the Heat's offense.

You say LeBron choked, but don't you think it's not only because of the mental aspect, but because he couldn't play well in the post? Seriously, he was being guarded by Barea and Terry, and could not punish them. That changed the Heat's offense for the worst when he could not take advantage.

Don't come in with your mind made up, at least read my post. We are here to listen to different opinions, counter my arguments, don't just say what you've always thought and leave it at that.

[francesco totti]

wasnt joel anthony starting for the heat in 2011?
their spacing sucked in 2011.. and bibby as well i think.


2012 is better team

[FLDFSU]

Wade's decline from top 3 in the World to borderline top 10, leaving that elite level, settles it for me...

they crushed the Celtics and Bulls, James & Wade closed them out perfectly, LeBron choked and they still went 6 games.

Lost 3 games up until the finals on excellent competition... a few plays away from going up 3-0 in the NBA finals, with Bron not playing too impressive.

Well, Wade did help close out the Bulls in game 5, but Wade was absolutely horrible in our series against the Bulls in 2011, including up until the closing moments of game 5.

Just bad.

I thought Wade would never have another series like that again, but then that series started to become the norm for Wade.

[Micku]

Wade's decline from top 3 in the World to borderline top 10, leaving that elite level, settles it for me...

they crushed the Celtics and Bulls, James & Wade closed them out perfectly, LeBron choked and they still went 6 games.

Lost 3 games up until the finals on excellent competition... a few plays away from going up 3-0 in the NBA finals, with Bron not playing too impressive.

2011 was like the only playoffs where the big 3 was healthy. In 2012, they only reason why they struggled was because Bosh was missing until game 5 and was fighting through injuries and Wade was hurting. That says something about how good they were imo. I also think the 2012 was better than the 11 Heat when healthy.

But 2011 Heat faced better competition I feel. The only thing that stopped them was a historic choke from LBJ.

[Wade's Rings]

Well, Wade did help close out the Bulls in game 5, but Wade was absolutely horrible in our series against the Bulls in 2011, including up until the closing moments of game 5.

Just bad.

I thought Wade would never have another series like that again, but then that series started to become the norm for Wade.

Wade had excellent Defense that series and made big plays down the stretch in Multiple games. Bosh popped off as well.

The only other series worse than that was the 2014 Finals.

[Wade's Rings]

[B]Wade's decline from top 3 in the World to borderline top 10[\B], leaving that elite level, settles it for me...

they crushed the Celtics and Bulls, James & Wade closed them out perfectly, LeBron choked and they still went 6 games.

Lost 3 games up until the finals on excellent competition... a few plays away from going up 3-0 in the NBA finals, with Bron not playing too impressive.

[dubeta]

2011 Heat was a Wade sabotage away from running away with the championship.


2012 Heat struggled, going down in the series vs indiana, Celtics, and the thunder


So I'd say the 2011 Heat was slight better

[PJR]

2011 Heat was a Wade sabotage away from running away with the championship.

Shut the fu[COLOR="Black"]ck[/COLOR] up.

[r15mohd]

Heat relied on talent only for 2011, inconsistent 1a/1b roles with no identity other than stardom.

2012 had a suffocating defense along with very serviceable role players and PEAK Lebron.

It's really a no brainer, 2012 heat all day any day. And that's not even discussing the backcourt for the heat at the time, as well...Mike Bibby and Carlos Arroyo.

[livinglegend]

Great post OP.
I agree 2012 Heat was better.
Another thing to add is that 2012 had much better shooters.
2011 sucked at shooting the ball and that was one of the reason why the zone worked so well against them.

[Dragonyeuw]

Role players were better, Lebron was better in 2012. Wade being worse actually worked to the point that it finally established a clear pecking order, whereas in 2011 it was more of a 'my turn, your turn' dynamic with Lebron while they figured each other out. Wade wound up being the xfactor, because you knew what you were getting from Lebron and to a lesser degree Bosh.

[NumberSix]

The main problem with the 2010-2011 team was, the team literally had no offense. Spo gave the team a season to just freestyle it so the players could get a better feel of each other and gel better in future seasons.

[aj1987]

Wade's decline from top 3 in the World to borderline top 10, leaving that elite level, settles it for me...

they crushed the Celtics and Bulls, James & Wade closed them out perfectly, LeBron choked and they still went 6 games.

Lost 3 games up until the finals on excellent competition... a few plays away from going up 3-0 in the NBA finals, with Bron not playing too impressive.

That's as idiotic as saying LeBron is a borderline top 5 player this season.