Would kobe be a top 10 player without shaq

[rlsmooth775]

1 MVP two finals MVP one is debatable. Shooting below 50% his entire career below average passer for someone so ball dominant and poor rebounder for a tall guard

[SouBeachTalents]

With just two rings? He'd definitely still be in the top 15. He'd be in the 10-14 range

[choppermagic]

Just taking away a teammate doesn't mean Kobe sits out those years. He'd be a phenom rookie with a full green light to take over the offense from an early age. He'd probably be chasing Karl Malone for No. 2 all time scoring by now and he'd have much more hype early on. With Phil, Eddie Jones, etc. I think the Lakers would be competitive anyway. Who knows if they would have won early too.

By your logic, taking away Pippen form MJ means MJ has 0 rings. Taking away Wade means Lebron has zero rings as well. It's just not as easy as taking away a teammate and giving a player a zero for those years.

[GrapeApe]

Just taking away a teammate doesn't mean Kobe sits out those years. He'd be a phenom rookie with a full green light to take over the offense from an early age. He'd probably be chasing Karl Malone for No. 2 all time scoring by now and he'd have much more hype early on. With Phil, Eddie Jones, etc. I think the Lakers would be competitive anyway. Who knows if they would have won early too.

By your logic, taking away Pippen form MJ means MJ has 0 rings. Taking away Wade means Lebron has zero rings as well. It's just not as easy as taking away a teammate and giving a player a zero for those years.

I agree with most of this, though along those same lines if Shaq never becomes a Laker I doubt Phil ever coaches there. He was instrumental in Kobe's development. Who knows if Kobe would even have remained a Laker. There's a butterfly effect that's impossible to account for so OP's question is really tough to answer. Kobe's entire career would be completely different.

[9erempiree]

Actually taking away Kobe would actually move him up much higher. This is what I call addition by subtraction. The "Shaq carried Kobe" argument would not exist. Kobe goes on to put up crazy stats at an early age and wins back to back.

A example I like to give is Hakeem. Only winning a back to back and he is considered top 10. Heck, you chop Kobe's accomplishment in half and he is still better than Hakeem.

His stats would be crazy high too without Shaq.

[JellyBean]

I would say heck yeah.

[9erempiree]

I agree with most of this, though along those same lines if Shaq never becomes a Laker I doubt Phil ever coaches there. He was instrumental in Kobe's development. Who knows if Kobe would even have remained a Laker. There's a butterfly effect that's impossible to account for so OP's question is really tough to answer. Kobe's entire career would be completely different.

Kobe was on the Lakers before Shaq. I bet Phil would come regardless because MJ is just like Kobe and since Phil coached MJ, there is no doubt he would continue the triangle with Kobe as well. Phil would have taken notice.

[red1]

absolutely

[kshutts1]

I'm not sure he's top 10 now.

But without getting into all the possible What Ifs, and just making the logical assumption that for a player to be as good as Kobe was once Shaq left, that said player must have also been very good prior...

I don't think he'd fall far, if at all.

[Magic 32]

Does this mean that Kobe is not on a rebuilding team in 05, 06, 07 ?

[JT123]

Of course not. Kobe can't handle adversity, as we saw back in 2007 when he requested a trade after just 3 seasons of not having the most stacked team in the league.
Without piggy backing Shaq to easy rings early in his career Kobe would have spent his entire career bouncing from super team to super team, except unlike Lebron Kobe choke's with super teams. See 2004 and 2012. Without Shaq he might not even be top 30.

[GrapeApe]

Kobe was on the Lakers before Shaq. I bet Phil would come regardless because MJ is just like Kobe and since Phil coached MJ, there is no doubt he would continue the triangle with Kobe as well. Phil would have taken notice.

Maybe, but Kobe was still extremely young and very raw. Even if Phil viewed Kobe as a potential MJ type, would Phil have had the patience to let him develop? Who was eventually going to be his Pippen? I don't think Phil takes the job unless he felt he had a championship roster in place. Shaq provided that. We all know he's a "win now" coach and not a team builder.

[theoneneo]

I'm not sure he's top 10 now.

But without getting into all the possible What Ifs, and just making the logical assumption that for a player to be as good as Kobe was once Shaq left, that said player must have also been very good prior...

I don't think he'd fall far, if at all.

Stop posting brah, you can't find 10 more accomplished players in the history of the NBA, there's only 2 for certain, everyone else is debatable.

Kobe's criticized for only having 1 MVP but Shaq only has 1 himself...
Kobe's criticized for having poor sub-par shooting finals, but people turn a blind eye to the fact that Duncan shot horribly against the same Detroit team that beat kobe a year prior, and he still won mvp

Criticized for playing with Shaq, but he proved that he can win with a player(Pau) who's impact ain't even half of Shaq's.

He's top 10, most likely top 5 once he retires. Deal with the shits!

[Rooster]

Would Shaq be a top 10 player without Kobe? Lakers did not start winning until Eddie Jones got traded and Kobe was entering his prime.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Would Shaq be without Kobe?

1 MVP & 0 FMVP