How many players in NBA history were the undisputed best player in the league?

[FourthTenor]

Duncan was better than Kobe in all the years prior to Lebron's first MVP, except for the one season he had plantar fasciitis. I believe the Spurs still made the conference finals, while the Ko-bricks were losing in the first round (again).

[Mr. Jabbar]

He lacks quite a bit that the best player in the NBA usually has.

Mostly...being noteworthy in ways other than scoring.

Lack of ESPN hype didnt keep anyone from calling Duncan the best when he was.

so true

[Pointguard]

'94 Hakeem
'84 Bird
'00 Shaq
'01 Shaq
'03 Duncan
'91, '92, '93, '96 MJ (maybe more, but I am not sure about undisputed)
'87 Magic

I don't know much before the 1980s so I'll let some of you other guys who are informed about that do the talking instead.

Undisputed means without a doubt. Lately, its just been way to convoluted. I would create another category called, Clearly, which would include more people.

Undisputed would be Mikan, Wilt, Kareem, MJ, Hakeem, Shaq.
Clearly would include Bird, Magic, Duncan, Kobe, Lebron.

[Force]

What is it with people and kobe 05-06 season? They Lakers were garbage after Shaq and before Gasol. Yet Kobe is one of the best ever that year? Yeah f'n right. Kobe has never been the clear best player in the league, not once.

Shaq is the most recent "undisputed" best player in the league.

[kennethgriffin]

my take on it

whenever there is an undisputed best player. it usually means that the era isnt verry good

jordan dominated the 90's... sure. but how many other 90's players are there in the top 10 all time?

hakeem could be argued. but so could the big O

and when we look at the possibility of wade/lebron getting 2-3 titles before theyre retired.. if they do..

the top 10 players all time could verry well consist of 5 players whos best years were from the 2000's

- jordan 90's
- kareem 70's
- russell 60's
- magic 80's
- wilt 60's
- kobe 2000's
- shaq 2000's
- lebron 2000's
- duncan 2000's
- wade 2000's or Bird 80's


this is why kobe had a hard time getting heads and shoulders above everyone...

this is actually a good thing. it shows there was much harder all time great competition for kobe in his era than jordans or anyone elses

[StateOfMind12]

It's called padding your stats on a bad team. And Lamar Odom is still a better 2nd option than someone like Derek Anderson on the 2001 Spurs(58 win team) or Jason Terry on the '07 Mavs.

On topic, best players of the 2000s on a yearly basis based on win shares:

2010-11 LeBron James 15.59 MIA
2009-10 LeBron James 18.46 CLE
2008-09 LeBron James 20.25 CLE
2007-08 Chris Paul 17.79 NOH
2006-07 Dirk Nowitzki 16.34 DAL
2005-06 Dirk Nowitzki 17.72 DAL
2004-05 Kevin Garnett 16.11 MIN
2003-04 Kevin Garnett 18.33 MIN
2002-03 Tim Duncan 16.45 SAS
2001-02 Tim Duncan 17.81 SAS
2000-01 Shaquille O'Neal 14.94 LAL
1999-00 Shaquille O'Neal 18.65 LAL

lol at Kobe being nowhere to be found. Guess advanced stats don't like chuckers.

Win shares really? That is probably the worst stat you can ever find and ever use. I bet you don't even know how it works and what it is suppose to do.

Mikan, Wilt, Kareem, Jordan, Shaq, Kobe, Lebron.

Magic and Bird were always up for debate so neither of them was undisputed.

Undisputed means without a doubt. Lately, its just been way to convoluted. I would create another category called, Clearly, which would include more people.

Undisputed would be Mikan, Wilt, Kareem, MJ, Hakeem, Shaq.
Clearly would include Bird, Magic, Duncan, Kobe, Lebron.

Lebron was never clearly the best either. Did you even bother to read my post?

[kennethgriffin]

like i said.. how can there be a clear cut best player when theres guys like shaq, duncan, kobe, lebron, wade all in one decade

thats 5 potential top 10 all time players... more than any other era

which makes the player of the decade ( kobe bryant ) that much more impressive

[HurricaneKid]

Win shares really? That is probably the worst stat you can ever find and ever use. I bet you don't even know how it works and what it is suppose to do.

Lebron was never clearly the best either. Did you even bother to read my post?

This is patently ridiculous. A Win Share merely shows a player's contribution as a share of wins produced.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/ws.html

Its a fine advanced Stat.

And I scoff at anyone (and there are plenty of "analysts" in this too) that woul say Kobe (or anyone else) was better than LeBron in 09.

LeBron is leading WS for his 4th straight year. The three previous years he was 2nd. FTR, Kobe has NEVER been in the top 3 (though he IS 3rd this year)

[HurricaneKid]

lol at Kobe being nowhere to be found. Guess advanced stats don't like chuckers.

You know what is even funnier? He has never even been second in WS or PER. He was 3rd once in PER and his highest raking in WS is 4th.

Undisputed my ***.

[StateOfMind12]

This is patently ridiculous. A Win Share merely shows a player's contribution as a share of wins produced.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/ws.html

Its a fine advanced Stat.

And I scoff at anyone (and there are plenty of "analysts" in this too) that woul say Kobe (or anyone else) was better than LeBron in 09.

LeBron is leading WS for his 4th straight year. The three previous years he was 2nd. FTR, Kobe has NEVER been in the top 3 (though he IS 3rd this year)

Ok....go ahead and explain why this stuff happened then with win shares.


-Detlef Schrempf, Dana Barros, Reggie Miller, and Stockton were all ahead of Hakeem in win shares in 1995. The year he won his second ring and was at worst...the second best player in the NBA(in reality...the best). Hakeem wasnt even top 10. Not sure how far he fell but it amuses me to know numbers can be bent that far.

-In 1990 Hakeem put up 24/14/5 blocks 2 steals and 3 assists a game. But his teams record was bad(well...average) so he was behind Terry Porter, Reggie, and so on. And odd thing is Reggies team had almost the exact same record as Hakeems.

-Brent Barry ended up having more win shares than Kidd in 2002. And that was in 02 when midseason Kidd likely would have been voted MVP.

-Oh and also that year in 2002...Elton Brand over Dirk, Shaq(3rd ring year) and KG somehow.


^^ props to Kblaze for mentioning all of this information in another thread.


Yeah win shares is a joke stat but since it probably supports your favorite player you aren't going to go against it.

You don't even understand how win shares work cause if you did you would actually take the time to briefly explain it to me since that link you posted about it does a terrible job of doing so. Obviously you won't care because that stat supports your favorite player and goes against the player you hate, so why would you go against something that makes you happy?

[Deuce Bigalow]

Duncan was better than Kobe in all the years prior to Lebron's first MVP, except for the one season he had plantar fasciitis. I believe the Spurs still made the conference finals, while the Ko-bricks were losing in the first round (again).

2001, 2004, 2006-Present Kobe's been better than Duncan

[iamgine]

Nobody is truly the "undisputed" best player, there are always debates, regardless of how logical they are.

KBlaze has mentioned the Nique/Jordan debates for example.

But as far as general perception. As a kid, I remember it pretty much being Jordan and then everyone else, except coming off the back to back titles, Hakeem was widely regarded as the best player.

Other than that, it was pretty much considered Shaq's league from '00-'02 and Kobe's from '06-'08(argue all you want, but Kobe was widely considered the best in the game during that time).

I agree that Duncan was clearly the best in '03, but it wasn't undisputed. People were pretty split between Kobe, T-Mac, KG and Shaq as well as Duncan of course.

Just like I do think that Lebron was the best in '09(and '10 for that matter), but people acting like it was undisputed are crazy. How short are people's memories that they don't remember the constant Lebron vs Kobe talk just 2-3 years ago?

Other than that, from what I've read/seen mentioned in old games, I'd say Bird from '84-'86.

Moses didn't seem to be other than maybe '83. I've seen A LOT of articles calling Bird the best as early as '81.

Definitely Kareem for quite a bit of the 70's, though there was Walton's year and a half and I've heard that there were debates over best player between the 2 leagues(Dr. J vs Kareem).

As far as Wilt? Well, I'll save JLauber some energy and state that I'm NOT commenting on how many years Wilt was the best other than that it's hard to argue against him in '67.

But, in general, people can't forget about Russell. Unless I'm mistaken, I'm pretty damn sure that Wilt wasn't considered clearly better than Russell throughout their careers.

Was Kobe really the best or just the most popular though? Somehow the two seems connected.

For example, in 2005-2006: Whilst Kobe averaged 35-5-5, Lebron averaged 31-7-7 while leading his team further in the playoff. Opinions can vary but those were close enough for it not to be undisputed.

[Pointguard]

Lebron was never clearly the best either. Did you even bother to read my post?

Yeah I read it but it didn't say anything about clearly. Did you understand what you wrote? Even if you think you did, it isn't the law.

Undisputed is for boxing rings and mano a mano matchups. You can't sit on a throne alone in basketball as it is a team sport. Undisputed is an illusion until you unite all categories. MJ is the closet thing to that only because he was the best offensive player and a top three defensive player, was dominant and winning it all and leading his team, all at the same time. But that full size combo only he and Wilt, Kareem and Hakeem (Mikan?) can lay claim to. Shaq was close.

After that, you have to start doing things by piece-meal and haters have always detracted from, and you too are a hater. Some people put a big billing on winning it all. Others on all around game. Still others milk the team ball aspect... . At least we can say that Lebron in '09 put a team on his back, won like crazy, had one of the most complete games ever, was efficient and didn't have much of a knock on him in any category.

[phoenix_bladen]

Dirk was the undisputed best player last year 2010/2011 in the playoffs for sure!

And pretty much Michael Jordan his whole career especially in the playoffs! ... well maybe except for his first year or two when he was a rookie......

[WeGetRing2012]

When you beat Wade and LeBron 4-2, Kobe 4-0, and Durant 4-1 you are clearly the best player in the NBA.

He just lacks ESPN hype.

No Dallas beat the Lakers,Thunder,and Heat not individuals.... Dirk is not a good player on both ends of the court so he was never the undisputed best. Offensively he is great but for a 7'0fter is not a good rebounder or defensive player.