Clinging on to 6 rings?

[Rico2016]

Guess it's better to cling to 6 losses?

Have you seen the information, or are you choosing to ignore it? LeBron has just about every individual record at this point. He might even beat out Kareem for regular season scoring champion to pair with his playoff scoring champion achievement. May I ask you then, which was Jordan's best Finals win?

You seem to be the right person to ask, judging by your proudly displayed avatar.

[ImKobe]

"He never plays / beats 50+ win teams"

but Detroit won 53gms

"They were washed up though, that doesn't count"


... dumb

He beat two .500 teams and a washed up version of the Pistons. It's like if Jordan beat the Bad Boy Pistons without Rodman & Daly.

[PickernRoller]

You dust off this alt to write that? Ok then

[Hey Yo]

He beat two .500 teams and a washed up version of the Pistons. It's like if Jordan beat the Bad Boy Pistons without Rodman & Daly.

They still won 50+ games. You don't get to pick and chose which 50+ game winners are legit and who aren't. It's the same with you Kobe kids trying to claim the 50+ win teams he beat in the playoffs with Shaq as first option.

It don't work like that.

[bullettooth]

Have you seen the information, or are you choosing to ignore it? LeBron has just about every individual record at this point. He might even beat out Kareem for regular season scoring champion to pair with his playoff scoring champion achievement. May I ask you then, which was Jordan's best Finals win?

You seem to be the right person to ask, judging by your proudly displayed avatar.

Oh now it's about records?!

Well then.. guess Wilt Chamberlain would have to be the GOAT, right??

[ArbitraryWater]

Lebron had three teammates averaging 11+ ppg.

i love this man

[ImKobe]

They still won 50+ games. You don't get to pick and chose which 50+ game winners are legit and who aren't. It's the same with you Kobe kids trying to claim the 50+ win teams he beat in the playoffs with Shaq as first option.

It don't work like that.

It's not about whether they won 50+ games. The 2007 Finals run argument is just so asinine considering he only had to beat a couple of .500 teams and a Pistons team without it's defensive anchor or HOF coach. Jordan went 7 with prime Bad Boy Pistons and would have beat them earlier too if Rodman and Daly weren't there.

And Kobe was the first option in the Playoffs from 01-04..

[Hey Yo]

It's not about whether they won 50+ games. The 2007 Finals run argument is just so asinine considering he only had to beat a couple of .500 teams and a Pistons team without it's defensive anchor or HOF coach. Jordan went 7 with prime Bad Boy Pistons and would have beat them earlier too if Rodman and Daly weren't there.

... yeah right. The first chance you guys get, you post that bogus 50+ win chart in the postseason. Like I said, you don't to get to decide which team is a legit 50+ game winner and who isn't.

And Kobe was the first option in the Playoffs from 01-04

[ImKobe]

... yeah right. The first chance you guys get, you post that bogus 50+ win chart in the postseason. Like I said, you don't to get to decide which team is a legit 50+ game winner and who isn't.

???

You're making an argument about 50 wins in this thread , I just made the argument that the 2007 Pistons were a much worse Pistons squad compared to them in the earlier years. You only have to go back to the previous year and see that they won 10 more games with Ben Wallace and that the last time they made the Finals was with Larry Brown as the coach.

So what constitutes as a first option to you? Kobe ran the offense and took the most shots in most series.

[Vino24]

Who exactly did Jordan beat?

[TheMan]

OP wasting our time writing pro LeBron novels yet in the real world...

MICHAEL JORDAN IS THE GREATEST BASKETBALL PLAYER OF ALL TIME, ACCORDING TO NEW SURVEY

Sorry, LeBron, but it wasn't even close...

Who is the greatest baller of them all?

The fiery debate that's divided basketball fans for years just got doused with more fuel courtesy of a new survey conducted by Business Insider...and Michael Jordan won by a landslide.

Of 1,082 respondents polled via SurveyMonkey, 747 offered to name an NBA player as the greatest of all time. A whopping 66 percent picked His Airness.

LeBron James, who recently proclaimed that his part in leading the Cleveland Cavaliers to their first-ever NBA title earned him the title, came in a very distant second with just 10.4 percent of the GOAT picks.


Michael Jordan – 66%
LeBron James – 10.4%
Larry Bird – 4.0%
Wilt Chamberlain – 3.5%
Shaquille O’Neal – 2.7%
Kobe Bryant – 2.3%
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar – 2.1%
Stephen Curry – 2.0%
Bill Russell – 0.9%
Magic Johnson – 0.9%
Other – 5.1%

https://www.maxim.com/sports/michael...ls-goat-2019-3

Article from March of this year

The people have spoken...

[3ball]

-10 scoring titles
-6 FMVPs
-6 rings
-Never had a great scoring second option
-Never lost in the Finals
-Most playoff points scored
-Most playoff game winners

6/6 with 10 scoring titles is goat because difficulties with teamwork prevent scoring champs from winning rings, except Jordan did it 6 times - only Kareem and Shaq did it once each in their peak seasons of 71' and 00'

So imagine Kareem or Shaq winning all their rings with the same brand of dominance they had in their peak year (juggernaut scoring champ).. that was MJ - their peak burden was his standard burden to win a ring

It was the first time some asked, [COLOR="Blue"]“Wait, why didn’t Jordan get to Finals early in career like Bron)?”[/COLOR] And in reponse, we heard “SIXXX RINGGGS. NOT CLUTCH. MJ IS THE PLAYOFF RECORD LEADER. PLAYOFF SCORING CHAMP.” Okay, so we let it go.

everyone knew that MJ played the goat celtics and lebron the 40-win wizards

1-9 was never a criticism because 8 vs. 1 seed losses are never criticized... ... no one would criticize Lebron's Lakers or any 8 seed losing to the goat Warriors

Then we witnessed LeBron James win [COLOR="Blue"]4 MVPs in 5 years and again thought, wow, that is very impressive. We asked again, “Wait, why didn’t Jordan do this[/COLOR]?” And all we heard was “SIXXX RINGGGS. NOT CLUTCH. MJ IS THE PLAYOFF RECORD LEADER. PLAYOFF SCORING CHAMP.”

4 mvp's is all he won

Both players had 4 mvp's in their first 10 seadons, but MJ had 1 more regular season MVP and 3 more fmvp

Essentially, ur saying that people were trumpeting lebron's lesser success, and they were - until this year when it was exposed in the Wbest

After LeBron continued his playoff success and his historically epic 2016 run, thereby [COLOR="Blue"]defeating the greatest NBA team ever[/COLOR] assembled we asked again, “Wait...why didn’t Jordan do this?” And again we heard “SIXXX RINGGGS. NOT CLUTCH. MJ IS THE PLAYOFF RECORD LEADER. PLAYOFF SCORING CHAMP.”

MJ's total body of work was simply much better

So Lebron can one-off all he wants because people know he's still the "Clippers" of the Finals (mostly gets crushed)

People also realize that his 2nd option outplayed their 1st option and closed the series

You can’t say LeBron isn’t clutch any longer. [COLOR="Blue"]LeBron now has more game winners in the post season and on better efficiency than Jordan.[/COLOR] Myth busted.

Not better efficiency and a much lower frequency (60 more games), and none late in series or the championship round (Finals):

But then as time and LeBron’s achievements progressed, we started to hear less push back and more goal post moving. [COLOR="Blue"]LeBron has now passed Michael in nearly everything[/COLOR]…

Let's look at all the important ones:


rings - Mj
mvp's - MJ
fmvp's MJ
PPG and efficiency rating (PER) - MJ
dpoy - MJ
Efficiency on game-winners - MJ
Important/Legendary/Finals winners - MJ
Overall clutch stats - MJ
no losses as the favorite/chokes - MJ
rings as scoring champ - MJ (6)
never outscored in any series - MJ
usage/offensive rating - MJ
Deep runs as a low seed - MJ

You can’t say LeBron isn’t an [COLOR="Blue"]elite scorer[/COLOR] any longer. LeBron now has scored more points in the post season and on better efficiency than Jordan and on fewer shots. Myth busted.

Lebron isn't an elite scorer because his elite PPG requires the highest time of possession of all time (most ball-domination ever)

And his elite PPG is still 5+ behind MJ's, like everyone else's in history

You can’t say LeBron needed top tier talent any longer. [COLOR="Blue"]Many[/COLOR] of LeBron’s teammates did horribly both before and after he was around. Myth busted.

"Many" teammates also played worse alongside him, despite being in their prime

Ultimately, Lebron's ball-dominance hinders the ball-movement/teamwork that teammates need to play well, so ready-made superstars are required to have any chance for a contender - I.e. he could never make it with Lowry

What do Jordan fans still have to be proud about?

MJ is the only player with all-time levels of stats, rings, accolades

And he has 6 first option rings, or teoce as much as anyone else

It can’t be his competition any longer. [COLOR="Blue"]LeBron faced far better competition[/COLOR]

It's opinion

The Warriors face the "clippers" of the Finals (bron's teams) every year in the Finals - that's their Finals comp - while the 80's celtics had 5 HOF and beat the best comp ever

The Pistons had 3 HOF plus two 3x all-stars - a full starting 5 of all-star players, with the goat defense - they beat the best comp ever (MJ, bird, magic)

It can’t be his dominant run any longer. [COLOR="Blue"]LeBron dominated more and longer.[/COLOR]
It can’t be his defense any longer. LeBron did more in the postseason (not regular season).

making the Finals < winning the Finals

Also, making the Finals is just winning the conference finals.. that's less than winning the Finals, obviously

Furthermore, Lebron only made the Finals once with a weak team (07') when everyone was doing it too (Dwight, AI, Kidd)... Even though a superstar cast wasn't needed to make the Finals, Lebron failed it in 09/10 and needed to stacked the deck after that to ensure Finals runs from 11-18'..

Jordan fans can’t even be proud of the 6 rings he won. Which is his best championship win? None of them were remarkably great. [COLOR="Blue"]When did Jordan ever lead his team in defense AND win a FMVP? When did Jordan average a triple double in the Finals? When did Jordan lead everyone in everything?[/COLOR] When you start comparing Jordan’s achievements to LeBron’s they pale in comparison. Except for the last one they cling to.

1) FMVP and defensive leader - Jordan held Drexler to 25 on 40% while dropping 36/6/7 on 53%

He also guarded Magic for 14 out of 20 quarters in the 91' Finals, compared to 6 of 20 for Pippen.. this includes the critical Game 3 OT, where Pippen didn't play and MJ locked up Magic...

Jordan held the following players to 35-42% shooting - Isiah, Majerle, Miller, Drexler, Starks, Hornacek... Otoh, pippen was lit up by Xavier McDaniel in 92' ecf, Worthy, Penny, Schrempf and more


2) averaging a triple-double in the Finals - has lebron ever averaged 40 and closed a Finals?

3) led everyone in everything - lebron led the most important category by 2 ppg, while MJ led Pippen by 10-20 in every Finals
.

[Mr Feeny]

This message board has well and truly turned to garbage.

[TheCorporation]

Who exactly did Jordan beat?

Jordan stans wont touch this one

Meawhile us Bron boys can't even decide which of his 3 is the best

[LostCause]

In 2007 he beat who was put in front of him. He did benefit from playing a lower seed in the 1st round. It's the reward of doing well during the regular season so I cannot hold it against him. Can you?

And the Pistons were a solid team, having won it all just a few years prior in 2004 and making the Finals in 2005.

I'm going to give you major pushback on saying the 2007 Cavs "weren't a bad team" because that's completely false and your NBA license should be suspended for saying that. I've known you to be a better post than this. Was that for shock value?

Good job pretending to respond to his point but skirting around it entirely. The 07 Pistons were without their multiple time DPOY and anchor, Ben Wallace. They also didn’t have their championship coach. Citing what they did in 04 is useless. By your logic, Jordan in 91 beat the showtime lakers. Even though they didn’t have Kareem and Pat Riley, they won it all 3 years prior

Don’t intentionally be obtuse