forget Jordan and Kobe... Lebron should worry about hakeem

[DaSeba5]

So Kobe had 3 Shaq rings.
Lebron has 2 Wade+Bosh rings IF he wins this year.

So lebron needs to win another one with Wade+Bosh, then win 2 more rings leading his own team like Kobe did.

Do you think he can do that?
If he can, hats off to him, he's on Kobe's level.

How is last year's ring on Wade and Bosh? Wade was on one knee, and Bosh was hurt the majority of the playoffs. Bosh was key in spreading the floor and playing great defense in the Finals against Ibaka and Perkins, but it's not like beasted on OKC. Wade was good in the Finals, but LeBron clearly had better stats.

Just look at the stats. LeBron was clutch, and he played terrific. He was clearly the Finals MVP last year. There's no doubt about that.

[bbp1aya]

More like Kobe and his 2 FMVPs, THEN worry about Shaq and his 3 FMVPs.

putting Kobe above Shaq

[All Net]

How is last year's ring on Wade and Bosh? Wade was on one knee, and Bosh was hurt the majority of the playoffs. Bosh was key in spreading the floor and playing great defense in the Finals against Ibaka and Perkins, but it's not like beasted on OKC. Wade was good in the Finals, but LeBron clearly had better stats.

Just look at the stats. LeBron was clutch, and he played terrific. He was clearly the Finals MVP last year. There's no doubt about that.

Indeed

Trying to convince somebody who hates Lebron with a passion is pointless. If Rings was all that mattered many wouldn't be putting Lebron above Kobe if Lebron wins his 2nd straight title..which will happen if he does win it all again.

fact is rings/Stats and how a guy wins is factored in...

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Shaq had 3 Finals MVPs playing alongside Kobe; Lebron has 1 going on 2 Finals MVPS w/ Bosh+Wade IF he wins this year.

So Lebron needs to win another Finals MVP to tie Kobe/kick him OUT of the top 10.

FTFY

[ripthekik]

fact is rings/Stats and how a guy wins is factored in...

I agree, which is why teammates should also be heavily factored in. Hakeem for example, won 2 rings 2 FMVP with no other all star. Correct me if I'm wrong about this. That is something that shouldn't be ignored.

I know Lebron performed better than Wade and Bosh. But you can't ignore the fact that he won with 2 all stars in their primes. Their statistics went down because they adjusted, it doesn't mean they declined. No matter how you want to spin it.. he won with 2 all stars in their primes.

Taking that into consideration, I don't know how one can rank currently 1 FMVP 1 ring Lebron over 2 FMVP 2 Rings Hakeem.

[Mr. Incredible]

Haha haters really mad ITT.

LeBron will have 3 more MVPs than Kobe after this year. And if things go as planned, he'll have as many FMVPs as Kobe. Before you know it, he'll have just as many titles, if not more.

Just watch.

[pauk]

Sorry haters, thats just to much accolades and to much of a player to keep out of top 10........

i agree. and Hakeem actually won without a stacked team.. more respect to that man. to his franchise as well.

Actually, its factually Hakeem that won with a more "stacked" team when you consider that he had a much deeper team and better coaching, certainly Hakeems teammates combined produced more PTS/REBS/ASTS etc. than Lebrons teammates.... Wade/Bosh is just name value due to their past, they were no superstars at this stage, they certainly didnt play like it, especially not Bosh.... Lebron had technically only 2 all-stars, where only 1 was playing like an all-star in the playoffs and the rest of the players were actually worse than what Hakeem had to work with around him..... He carried those guys in the playoffs having one of the best playoff runs by a FMVP ever......... unfortunately...

Lebron will maybe/most likely get another Championship/FMVP

On top of that he has 3 more MVPs and so on than Hakeem.....

On top of that he was a much more dominant player than Hakeem, Lebron was/is the best player in the world for 4+ years..............

Certainly Lebron didnt either need Michael Jordan to go play baseball for 2 years to be called the best in the world and win a championship.... unlike Hakeem.........

I love Hakeem.... but he wont have a case especially after this season is done.... infact after this year it will be even stupid to disregard Lebron from the discussions/debates/arguments for being ranked over even guys like Kobe, Shaq, Duncan and Bird..........

[Djahjaga]

So Kobe had 3 Shaq rings.
Lebron has 2 Wade+Bosh rings IF he wins this year.

So lebron needs to win another one with Wade+Bosh, then win 2 more rings leading his own team like Kobe did.

Do you think he can do that?
If he can, hats off to him, he's on Kobe's level.

Wade + Bosh =/= Shaq.

And if you really think they do, then Lebron just carried prime Shaq to that ring last year, or did you miss the Indiana, Boston, and OKC series?

You can't have it both ways and say that you need a FMVP to enter the discussion, but then all rings count. It's either all rings or only rings for which you won the FMVP.

Lebron 1 FMVP
Bird/Olajuwon/Kobe 2 FMVP
Magic/Shaq/Duncan 3 FMVP
Jordan 6 FMVP

[All Net]

I agree, which is why teammates should also be heavily factored in. Hakeem for example, won 2 rings 2 FMVP with no other all star. Correct me if I'm wrong about this. That is something that shouldn't be ignored.I know Lebron performed better than Wade and Bosh. But you can't ignore the fact that he won with 2 all stars in their primes. Their statistics went down because they adjusted, it doesn't mean they declined. No matter how you want to spin it.. he won with 2 all stars in their primes.

Taking that into consideration, I don't know how one can rank currently 1 FMVP 1 ring Lebron over 2 FMVP 2 Rings Hakeem.

Indeed

which is why Hakeem is ranked higher than most because of that reason..Hakeem is in the 8-10 range by most people.

Who said Lebron right now is above Hakeem? most would agree Lebron needs another title, MVP to climb into the top 8-10...which is damn impressive since he is only 29 years old..

[DaSeba5]

I agree, which is why teammates should also be heavily factored in. Hakeem for example, won 2 rings 2 FMVP with no other all star. Correct me if I'm wrong about this. That is something that shouldn't be ignored.

I know Lebron performed better than Wade and Bosh. But you can't ignore the fact that he won with 2 all stars in their primes. Their statistics went down because they adjusted, it doesn't mean they declined. No matter how you want to spin it.. he won with 2 all stars in their primes.

Taking that into consideration, I don't know how one can rank currently 1 FMVP 1 ring Lebron over 2 FMVP 2 Rings Hakeem.

This would be a better argument if they won in 2011, and Wade was the Finals MVP. LeBron clearly carried the team last year. He had to bang with the Pacers and put up Wilt numbers to beat them. He had to play like a God against the Celtics in game 6 to avoid elimination. He won his ring in game 5 with a triple double. He was phenomenal in the postseason.

LeBron EARNED his ring last year, and was clearly the best player. Everyone needs good players to win titles, and that doesn't take anything away from LeBron.

[jlip]

A routine, predictable, and redundant troll thread has nearly 40 posts in less than an hour.

[Djahjaga]

I agree, which is why teammates should also be heavily factored in. Hakeem for example, won 2 rings 2 FMVP with no other all star. Correct me if I'm wrong about this. That is something that shouldn't be ignored.

I know Lebron performed better than Wade and Bosh. But you can't ignore the fact that he won with 2 all stars in their primes. Their statistics went down because they adjusted, it doesn't mean they declined. No matter how you want to spin it.. he won with 2 all stars in their primes.

Taking that into consideration, I don't know how one can rank currently 1 FMVP 1 ring Lebron over 2 FMVP 2 Rings Hakeem.

Then what about Kobe playing with a top-10 player all time in his prime for his first three rings? He didn't even outperform him. Shaq's stats don't go down just because you want them to. By your logic these rings should have an asterisk on them, as well.

[arifgokcen]

Oh, let's also add Derek Fisher and his 5 championship rings, as well as Robert Horry and his 7 rings!

Oh! And Sam Jones & his 10 titles!!!

How about Bill Russell & his 11 rings?






A player's ring count should not be the deciding factor of his greatness. LeBron is clearly a top 10 talent skill-wise. Championships are more of a team accomplishment, though I would say a player's rings shouldn't be excluded when discussing the GOAT.
Whether he's great enough for top 5 nominations is something the basketball world will have to decide collectively once he retires.



And I know the cheap tactic of leaving Cleveland to play in a stacked Heat team is always going to put an asterisk next to however many rings he wins (whether it's just the one has now or ends up with 1+ more), but you still can't deny that LBJ has the skills to give all legends a run for their money.

/thread
+repped

[ripthekik]

This would be a better argument if they won in 2011, and Wade was the Finals MVP. LeBron clearly carried the team last year. He had to bang with the Pacers and put up Wilt numbers to beat them. He had to play like a God against the Celtics in game 6 to avoid elimination. He won his ring in game 5 with a triple double. He was phenomenal in the postseason.

LeBron EARNED his ring last year, and was clearly the best player. Everyone needs good players to win titles, and that doesn't take anything away from LeBron.

Yes, I've clearly said in my post, Lebron performed better than them. He was great. I'm giving you all of that. But beyond that, you start looking into what teammates he had, and the fact is that he had 2 all stars. That's printed in history.. that's something you can't erase. If this was a team 30 years ago, I can simply look up to see which teammates were all stars (if they had all stars back then).

Everyone needed good players, but you look into history.. not every team has 3 all stars to win the championship.

I'm just saying.. it's a factor that can't be ignored. It was a trap when Lebron went to Miami.. he just can't escape this.

I would be really glad to see Lebron lead Bosh OR Wade to the championship, and give him his props. I really do. The situation just doesn't let me.

[Ne 1]

Lebron 1 FMVP
Bird/Olajuwon/Kobe 2 FMVP
Magic/Shaq/Duncan 3 FMVP
Jordan 6 FMVP

Rings are rings. Nobody, except for morons with an agenda uses Finals MVPs as some arbitrary qualifier for if a players ring counts or not. Walk into the local sports bar tonight and ask people how many rings any all-time great player has: Jordan, Kareem, Russell, Magic, Bird, Kobe, Shaq, Hakeem etc. 6, 6, 11, 5, 3, 5, 4 and 2. Nobody except for a tiny fraction of elitist baksetball fans on ISH and similar websites obsess over a fictional category like "number of rings with Finals MVP"

No one penalizes Dr. J or Oscar for not winning MVP of the Finals for their rings. What about Magic/Kareem. What about cases where one player was better but had better stats in the Finals, like Pierce over Garnett in 2008 or Parker over Duncan in 2007? Look at Bird vs. Magic as an example. Magic is usually ranked ahead of Bird largely because he has 5 rings and Bird has 3. However, Magic was the undisputed best player on his team for only 2 of his championships. Yet all 5 "count" when comparing him to Bird? Heck, Kobe was closer to Shaq in 2001 and 2002 than Magic was to Kareem in 1980, but only 2 of Kobe's rings "count" (2009 and 2010), yet all 5 of Magic's "count"?

Why should it even matter? If one player was 40% responsible, another 30% responsible, and the other 10 players 30% responsible does that 10% really matter? I look at whether a player was indispensable. If you replaced a player with an above average player at his position would his team still win? If so, I give him less credit.

Why is Finals MVP so important anyway? It's an award based on 4-7 games and plenty of non-elite players have won it. KG was the best player on the '08 Celtics, their defensive anchor and was the best player in the playoffs and arguably the Finals too even though he did not win FMVP. The award didn't even exist until 1969, had it Bill Russell would have more than anyone.

Kareem was flat out robbed of the 1980 FMVP in favor of a popular, charismatic teammate and we are to act as if the award is legit? Paul Pierce, Tony Parker, Cedric Maxell, Joe Dumars, and Chauncey Billups all have FMVP's. And as I said, even John freaking Starks came within one shot of winning a FMVP.