Can someone explain why Denver is supposed to be so good?

[Yung D-Will]

Good deal, I'll take it. So basically whoever wins seeding bet= 1 month... and whoever goes further in playoffs= 3 month. Bookmark the thread

[Whoah10115]

McGee is a better shotblocker and a HORRENDOUS defender. Nene is easily a better all around defender . Nene is actually an elite post defender and I have the numbers to back it up. Neither have been huge minute players but let's look at their PER 36 even last year in Nene's supposed worst year.

Nene: 20.2 ppg, 10.5 rpg, 2.5 apg, 1.6 bpg.

McGee: 18 ppg, 10 rpg, .5 apg,
2.7 bpg.


Now we look at them defensively per Synergy Sports.


Nene is ranked the 9th overall defender in the NBA, 5th overall post defender in the NBA. McGee is ranked 449th in the NBA (near dead last) in overall defense and 211th in post defense. As I said McGee is a good shotblocker and a terrible defender in general. Nene has always been known as a great interior defender and good all around defender.

McGee is a horrendous defender? No he isn't. I don't care what the stats say. Nene is a very good post defender, I agree. I don't know if he's elite, but he's very good. But he's not as good an overall defender as McGee. Washington was a team of bums and that guy was one of the few to try and play any defense. Synergy won't show that.

He made plenty of dumb plays on defense, but he always played defense. His man defense is terrific and he's an elite shot-blocker.


Also, your stats are based on 11 games that Nene played in Washington. In Denver (per36):


16.4PPG, 9.1RPG, 2.7APG, 1.1BPG, 1.6SPG


So that's not an accurate reflection. Nene coasted for most of his time in Denver. And last year is far from his worst season; it's the best he played for Denver outside of the prior season.


Don't forget, Nene played PF last year. McGee is going to play center. He might not even start the season (which I think is pretty stupid) but it's likely he will be starting by the end. And if he's not, then he'll be cultivated to start by next year. They're not paying him that money for nothing.


Their team is much better than it was last year. Lawson and Gallinari should be on the up and they have stupid depth. Iguodala could also end up being their best player this year.


And consider that McGee will likely replace Mozgov in the starting lineup (improvement), Mozgov adds to the bench (improvement), and Manimal is now starting (improvement over Nene, watch). They lose Harrington and I think that could hurt. But Randolph has always put up good stats and has shown good signs. Playing the 6th man PF behind an energy guy, on a team that runs...plus then you have Chandler and Brewer and maybe Hamilton gets some burn this year...they're fast and they run, and they're actually big as hell.

[Clippersfan86]

McGee is a horrendous defender? No he isn't. I don't care what the stats say. Nene is a very good post defender, I agree. I don't know if he's elite, but he's very good. But he's not as good an overall defender as McGee. Washington was a team of bums and that guy was one of the few to try and play any defense. Synergy won't show that.

He made plenty of dumb plays on defense, but he always played defense. His man defense is terrific and he's an elite shot-blocker.


Also, your stats are based on 11 games that Nene played in Washington. In Denver (per36):


16.4PPG, 9.1RPG, 2.7APG, 1.1BPG, 1.6SPG


So that's not an accurate reflection. Nene coasted for most of his time in Denver. And last year is far from his worst season; it's the best he played for Denver outside of the prior season.


Don't forget, Nene played PF last year. McGee is going to play center. He might not even start the season (which I think is pretty stupid) but it's likely he will be starting by the end. And if he's not, then he'll be cultivated to start by next year. They're not paying him that money for nothing.


Their team is much better than it was last year. Lawson and Gallinari should be on the up and they have stupid depth. Iguodala could also end up being their best player this year.


And consider that McGee will likely replace Mozgov in the starting lineup (improvement), Mozgov adds to the bench (improvement), and Manimal is now starting (improvement over Nene, watch). They lose Harrington and I think that could hurt. But Randolph has always put up good stats and has shown good signs. Playing the 6th man PF behind an energy guy, on a team that runs...plus then you have Chandler and Brewer and maybe Hamilton gets some burn this year...they're fast and they run, and they're actually big as hell.

Sure Denver is better, I said that. Issue is the people like yourself talking about how much better Denver got aren't acknowledging how much better the teams above them got. I feel the Clippers improved a ton too obviously and just adding healthy Billups back will make a big difference. So will the improvements of Griffin, DJ and Bledsoe which all look substantially improved this preseason (more so than Gallo and Lawson).

As for McGee.... the numbers don't lie about his defense bro. Players regularly take a crap on him, Nene on the other hand holds opposing bigs well below their averages.

[senelcoolidge]

Nuggets have depth and talent..but like last year's team no closer..no star. That won't do you much good at the end.

[RRR3]

last year they had the best record in the west before their best player(gallo) went down.

Ty Lawson is their best player

[rhythmic]

Sure Denver is better, I said that. Issue is the people like yourself talking about how much better Denver got aren't acknowledging how much better the teams above them got. I feel the Clippers improved a ton too obviously and just adding healthy Billups back will make a big difference. So will the improvements of Griffin, DJ and Bledsoe which all look substantially improved this preseason (more so than Gallo and Lawson).

As for McGee.... the numbers don't lie about his defense bro. Players regularly take a crap on him, Nene on the other hand holds opposing bigs well below their averages.

It's funny seeing you get agitated about something you yourself do every day here (regarding the Clippers).

[All Net]

They are deep as hell with plenty of high flyers which works great for the regular season.

[Yung D-Will]

Ty Lawson is their best player

It'll be interesting to see who's their best player this season between Lawson, Iggy and Gallo.

[RRR3]

It'll be interesting to see who's their best player this season between Lawson, Iggy and Gallo.

If Iggy can get back to scoring 17-20 PPG then it may be him. Lawson is a stud though. Not as high on Gallo.

[Whoah10115]

Sure Denver is better, I said that. Issue is the people like yourself talking about how much better Denver got aren't acknowledging how much better the teams above them got. I feel the Clippers improved a ton too obviously and just adding healthy Billups back will make a big difference. So will the improvements of Griffin, DJ and Bledsoe which all look substantially improved this preseason (more so than Gallo and Lawson).

As for McGee.... the numbers don't lie about his defense bro. Players regularly take a crap on him, Nene on the other hand holds opposing bigs well below their averages.

I'm not even talking them up, I'm just answering the question and responding to what you said.


Again, McGee is a much better defender than that. He showed a lot last year in Denver. His improvement is immediate.



With that thundering Thunder move, I think the Clippers are pushing for a 2nd seed.

[Clippersfan86]

I'm not even talking them up, I'm just answering the question and responding to what you said.


Again, McGee is a much better defender than that. He showed a lot last year in Denver. His improvement is immediate.



With that thundering Thunder move, I think the Clippers are pushing for a 2nd seed.

Fair enough. I agree McGee isn't near league worst (what numbers suggest) but he's also nowhere near as good as people think defensively (same goes for my boy DeAndre).

[no pun intended]

Remember that they were the #1 offensive team last year. With Iggy, they improve much better defensively as offensively.

[rhythmic]

Remember that they were the #1 offensive team last year. With Iggy, they improve much better defensively as offensively.

Damn, for some reason I thought the Spurs were.
Impressive stat, didn't know Nuggets were that good offensively...

[Clippersfan86]

[QUOTE=rhythmic

[Dr. Cheesesteak]

Honestly, I was w/ OP at the early stages of post-Iggy trade. I thought Denver is still a #6 seed at best, possibly not even in the playoffs! Then I started hearing some hype from ESPN and other sites a few weeks back. So I did some research. And it all makes sense now (besides ESPN Mag's #1 seed prediction).

Everyone here seems to think its as simple as just Iggy + McGee vs Afflalo + Nene. I honestly think Iggy + McGee are a better combo for that team than who they replaced.

But, also have to consider - Ty Lawson is expected to reach near-star, if not star status this year. Mozgov and Koufos are expected to complete the best C rotation in the league along w/ McGee. CBrewer is expected to have a breakout year off the bench. Faried now has a year under his belt and should only get better. They're getting WChandler back. A lot of small things like this that add to this team's roster and play style just make it more and more sexy, if you know what to expect. But that's the thing, a lot of expectations for a young, deep team that almost knocked out the Lakers in the playoffs. It's hype, definitely, but doesn't mean it isn't deserved.

So I understand now why there is so much hype. #1 seed in West type of hype? I don't think so. Top 4 seed and possible Finals appearance type of hype? I don't see why not. West is fairly open this year, imo, depending on playoff match ups.

also...

cause george karl is a fkn puppet master

With Iggy, they improve much better defensively as offensively.

that too.