what is the difference between "peak" and "prime"?

[SacJB Shady]

A prime can last 10+ years. A peak is the absolute best season or 2.

To me, Nash is still in his prime performance wise, he's just not in his PEAK prime. I mean when you average more assists than CP3 or Dwill, don't tell me that isn't great.

[97 bulls]

So in essence, when you guys are comparing players, you're gonna take roughly two maybe three years of a 14 year career and base your argument off that?

I liken it to the movie "spaceballs" when they say let's go to "ludicrous speed". Its just silly to me.

According to you guys, jordan best game didn't come in his "peak prime". The game when he dropped 69/18 and 7.

[97 bulls]

To me, Nash is still in his prime performance wise, he's just not in his PEAK prime. I mean when you average more assists than CP3 or Dwill, don't tell me that isn't great.

In my opinion, he's either in his prime or not. Its always been called the "twighlight" of a career. We need to move away from age and just look at the results. Especially when making comparisons. A players prime happens and lasts differently from one to another. I believe dominique wilkins avg his highest ppg at 32.

[ShaqAttack3234]

So in essence, when you guys are comparing players, you're gonna take roughly two maybe three years of a 14 year career and base your argument off that?

I liken it to the movie "spaceballs" when they say let's go to "ludicrous speed". Its just silly to me.

According to you guys, jordan best game didn't come in his "peak prime". The game when he dropped 69/18 and 7.

Not 2-3 years, I primarily judge a player based on how good they were in their prime, which typically lasts about a half decade, imo, give or take a year or 2. Not exclusively, but that's what most of my judgements are based on, and to a lesser extent other elite years that were before/after their prime, and their peak.

I think players can deserve credit for having a longer prime, but not to put them over players who were just clearly better to me. For example, Charles Barkley was in his prime from around '88 or '89 through '93, and Karl Malone's prime was probably longer, but Barkley was still clearly a better player to me.

And who the hell doesn't consider '90 part of Jordan's prime? I tend to lean towards that as his peak season, but everyone considers that part of his prime.

To me, Nash is still in his prime performance wise, he's just not in his PEAK prime. I mean when you average more assists than CP3 or Dwill, don't tell me that isn't great.

He's clearly not the player he was, but still very good and overlooked in best PG discussions. Prior to his injuries in the 2010-2011 season, he was very close.

[bdreason]

Peak is a more defined period of time (1-2 years typically), when a player strikes a perfect balance of physical ability and mental understanding of the game.


Prime encompasses a large period of time, where a player can still be improving their mental understanding, or losing their physical abilities... but still playing at a high level, typically in different fashions.

[Gifted Mind]

I'm talking about Magic's offensive game being a lot more limited, as his career went on, he added the post game and an outside shot. He had neither from '80-'83, but by '84 and '85, he was adding the outside shot and have seen games where he made quite a few. Prior to that, he'd rarely take them, and wouldn't usually make the ones he did take. Those skills made him much more of a threat, and it's why i think '84, maybe '85 was the first step in his improvement and having a case vs Kareem as the Lakers best player, but the post game and scoring mentality in addition to the improved shooting in '87 was the final step. And that really took Magic's game to another level compared to the all-time greats and even compared to contemporaries like Bird. Bird always had the clear edge to me through '86, but in '87 and '88, I think a legitimate case can be made for either.

I think Magic's transition to his mid-range game was a slow but always continuous process starting from his rookie year. Each year he got more and more comfortable. There wasn't any big jumps from one year to the next. I think it was by 86 when he really felt fully comfortable with his mid-range game. I have already agreed by 87 he was playing at another level, and that is when he should have started to be included into the all-time great conversations. However, we were discussing his play from 80-83 vs. 84-86, which I don't think there was a big difference. Sure he became an even more versatile offensive player, but his effectiveness on offense was about the same and had lost quickness on the defensive. Overall, there is no clear distinction or indicator that Magic was a superior player from 84-86 than 80-83. But yes from 87 onwards he did play at another level, which I would call his peak.

I disagree, peak to me implies the absolute best, I don't think of a long period of time. Prime is close tgo that level, but over an extended stretch to me, when you still have most of your physical ability and your skills and overall effectiveness are at/near their best before you lose significant athleticism and stamina.

For most players, I think it can be narrowed down to either 1 or 2 years as their best. I consider Michael Jordan's prime to be '90-'93, and his peak would be either '90 or '91, and an argument can be made for '92.

And to me, the majority of players have a year where everything comes together enough to determine it's their best, not always, but most players.

Ok I am curious then to when you think the peak and prime was for the following players:

Karl Malone
Jason Kidd
Steve Nash
Wilt Chamberlain
Larry Bird

[AlphaWolf24]

Prime = the ages when you body can perform at it's best physically and mentally

Peak = that one year when your at the best of your prime

Uber Peak = that one or two month stretch when your at the best of your peak

Uber Duper Peak = That one game when you perform at the best you are capable ever!

[ShaqAttack3234]

I think Magic's transition to his mid-range game was a slow but always continuous process starting from his rookie year. Each year he got more and more comfortable. There wasn't any big jumps from one year to the next. I think it was by 86 when he really felt fully comfortable with his mid-range game. I have already agreed by 87 he was playing at another level, and that is when he should have started to be included into the all-time great conversations. However, we were discussing his play from 80-83 vs. 84-86, which I don't think there was a big difference. Sure he became an even more versatile offensive player, but his effectiveness on offense was about the same and had lost quickness on the defensive. Overall, there is no clear distinction or indicator that Magic was a superior player from 84-86 than 80-83. But yes from 87 onwards he did play at another level, which I would call his peak.

Well, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on Magic because I see a pretty clear improvement when I compare '84-'86 Magic to '80-'83.

'87 is the perfect example of our different definitions between prime and peak because Magic going to the next level in '87 and pretty much maintaining that through '90 was why I consider that his prime. You could argue it last through '91, but people were already talking about him losing a step.

Ok I am curious then to when you think the peak and prime was for the following players:

Karl Malone
Jason Kidd
Steve Nash
Wilt Chamberlain
Larry Bird

Malone- I'd say his peak was 1998 , unsure about prime, he lasted a ridiculously long time, started some time in the early 90's, and ended in the late 90's, possibly 2000.

Kidd- This is an easy one, his prime was from '99-'04 and his peak was '03. The microfracture surgery after the '04 season really marked the end of his prime, especially since he was 31, but he remained an effective player after that,

Nash- His peak was '07 and I'd say his prime was around '05-'10, you could argue it started with Dallas in the '02 season, but I thought he went to another level in Phoenix.

Wilt- Didn't watch him play, but from what I know about him, I'd definitely go with '67 as his peak. I would consider his prime to have lasted through '69 because he had the knee injury early in the following season. Not sure when it started, maybe '62, though he did become a much better defender, a much better passer and a better team player after that, starting around '64 from what I've read.

Bird- Peak was '86, and his prime was from '84-'88.

[jlauber]

Chamberlain was dominating from his first game, and even with a surgically repaired knee, into his LAST game. Peak? Hell, from '62 thru '69 he just BLEW AWAY the BEST centers in the league...year-after-year. How about this? 20 STRAIGHT games against Bellamy, covering two seasons, in which he averaged 48.2 ppg. And, he would continue to abuse Bellamy for the rest of his CAREER. Or in the 64-65 season, covering all nine H2H games, Wilt outscored Reed by an AVERAGE of 40-24 per game.

And I have maintained that no other center just CRUSHED his peers in EVERY facet, like Wilt did to his peers in his 65-66 season. He buried Bellamy in ten games. He murdered Thurmond in nine games (and the game that Nate missed, Chamberlain hung a 62-37 game.) And he pounded Russell in their 14 H2H's (including the post-season.)

And I agree with ShaqAttack that Wilt's "decline" started after his devastating knee injury early in the 69-70 season, but before he was injured, and in the first nine games of the season, Wilt was LEADING the league in scoring at 32.2 ppg, and on 60% shooting. And the season before, and playing with an incompetent coach who shackled him, he STILL hung TWO 60+ point games (one on a phenomenal 29-35 shooting performance), and went on a 17 straight game tear in which he brutalized the NBA (averaging 31.1 ppg in that span.)

Even after his injury, he battled a PRIME Kareem to a statistical draw over the course of ten straight games (including five in the post-season) in Kareem's first MVP season in '71. And by universal consensus, he outplayed a PRIME Kareem, in Kareem's greatest statistical season, in the '72 WCF's. Even into their final six H2H games of the 72-73 season, Wilt severely limited Kareem, outshooting him by a staggering .737 to .450 margin in those six H2H's.

At the age of 35 Wilt came in third in the MVP balloting, and then went on to win the FMVP. And in his LAST season, at age 36, he led the NBA in rebounding, was voted first-team all-defense, and set a FG% mark that will never be broken. Then, in the playoffs, covering 17 games, he averaged 22.5 rpg, and took an injury-riddled Laker team to the Finals, where, in his last game, he put up a 23 point, 9-16 shooting, 21 rebound game.