If you are the best player in 6 finals and win only 2, never talk GOAT

[buddha]

That's the ISH philosophy. Hakeem is praised for going "2/3" in his 18 season career, while Wilt is ripped for going "2/6" in his 14 season career. Better to take your team down in flames in the first round, year-after-year, than to lose game seven's in the Finals.

usually, losing in the first round is an indication of playing on a bad team. where as, going to the finals and losing is an indication of being a bitch-made buster.

[LAZERUSS]

usually losing in the first round is an indication of playing on a bad team where going to the finals and losing is an indication of being a bitch-made buster.

Yep...Lebron is ripped for getting to Six Finals because he played in the "weak" Eastern Conference. And then he is ripped for going "2/6" in them when he gets there. Had he had the good fortune to have played in the Western Conference, perhaps he never gets to the Finals at all...and he would be held in a much higher regard.

[Hey Yo]

Was MJ considered the best player in the league when he led his team to defeat in the '88, '89, '90, and '95 post-seasons?

Shouldn't that be a "black-eye" against his legacy.

Or the fact that Bird may have been considered the greater player in their '86 and '87 H2H's...but geez, 0-6? Couldn't win one stinkin' game?

BTW, was Lebron considered the best player going into the '07 Finals, or do you think it might have been Duncan?

Also consider MJ quitting the league each time he had a chance to 4peat. The first time while still in his prime and under contract. The second time when he knew the team was old and dismantled and wouldn't be able to get it done the following season.

People say James leaves when the going get's tough but I guess that means the same for MJ, but he just "fakes" retirement over and over to avoid the inevitable.

[MP.Trey]

LAZ actually slaying in this thread.

[sdot_thadon]

BTW, if you took Lebron off those rosters, and the opposing team's best player off their roster, how many rings does Lebron's team win in those six Finals?

[Viriilink]

BTW, if you took Lebron off those rosters, and the opposing team's best player off their roster, how many rings does Lebron's team win in those six Finals?

Possibly three if you removed Dirk(2011), Durant(2012), and Tony Parker(2013).

[diamenz]

the only people saying bron is goat is the kids that were still seeds when mj was winning chips. if i'm wrong, then they're some sad ass adults.

[Optimus Prime]

Very few known analysts talk about James as the greatest player ever, furthest most go is greatest SF. Even on this site most of that discussion is people arguing against him being the greatest ever with an opponent that doesn't exist.

Someone doesn't watch/read ESPN. I'd say more often than not analysts and writers are slobbering over "Is LeBron the GOAT?! Better than MJ?!?!?!?!"

Hence why I only pay attention to the media to watch actual games and get news and updates. The kind of worship and favoritism LeBron gets is truly pathetic.

[rmt]

Was MJ considered the best player in the league when he led his team to defeat in the '88, '89, '90, and '95 post-seasons?

Shouldn't that be a "black-eye" against his legacy.

Or the fact that Bird may have been considered the greater player in their '86 and '87 H2H's...but geez, 0-6? Couldn't win one stinkin' game?

BTW, was Lebron considered the best player going into the '07 Finals, or do you think it might have been Duncan?

2006-07 MVP voting
Duncan 286 votes
Lebron 183 votes

[Chadwin]

When you don't play any actual competition until the the Finals (or maybe even the ECF), 2/5 matters.

[LAZERUSS]

2006-07 MVP voting
Duncan 286 votes
Lebron 183 votes

Exactly.

And I don't know what the odds were going into that Finals, but I suspect that the Spurs were just overwhelming favorites.

[Elosha]

Also consider MJ quitting the league each time he had a chance to 4peat. The first time while still in his prime and under contract. The second time when he knew the team was old and dismantled and wouldn't be able to get it done the following season.

People say James leaves when the going get's tough but I guess that means the same for MJ, but he just "fakes" retirement over and over to avoid the inevitable.

Highly inaccurate. Jordan quit the first time because his father was murdered during the past summer. He wanted to explore his father's dream for him to play baseball while he was still in his relative prime of life. Doesn't mean that I agree with Jordan's decision, I would have loved to see him play in 94 and 95. I think the Bulls would have won at least one of those years, probably 94.

At some point, Jordan decided he'd done enough to try his father's baseball dream, and went back to where he was truly meant to be. Yes, he deprived us of almost two years of all-time great play, but it's his life. He can deal with personal tragedy in the way he wishes and who are we to decide what he should have done?

As for 98, what do you expect? Reinsdorf and Jerry Krause refused to resign Phil Jackson, and made it clear they would not pay Scottie Pippen. Who does that to their best players/coach after 6 championships? Jordan didn't want to start over with a new coach and new teammates at 35-36 years old, and I don't blame him. He had perfect ending with the Bulls, which could only be sullied moving forward. Had the idiotic Bulls management kept Phil and Scottie, I think Jordan would have stayed and they probably would have won in 99. Everyone would have been more rested in the lockout season, and I don't anyone in the Eastern Conference or the first time Spurs beating the Bulls.

[3ball]

[3ball]

some misinformation itt

[3ball]

Wasn't MJ considered the best player in the league he was defeated in the '88, '89, '90, and '95 post-seasons?.. Shouldn't that be a "black-eye" against his legacy?

MJ didn't have an all-star teammate until 1990... But once he got that 1 all-star teammate, that's all he needed to go 6/6... Whereas Lebron got multiple all-star teammates in Miami and went 2/4..

That's why MJ's losses to the Bad Boys and 80's Celtics aren't counted against him - he never had an all-star teammate - but once he got JUST ONE, it was 6/6... No other player has done so much with so little.