Is Michael Jordan overrated?

[Lebron23]

No

Greatest Player in NBA History.

Jordan has one less Finals MVP, and more NBA Regular Season MVP than Shaq, Duncan, and Kobe combined.

[poido123]

I saw him play plenty of times in the 90's, and I was old enough to make my own judgement. Granted I was a bit too young to watch his peak statistic years in the 80's, but he also wasn't winning much then, didn't he? And by the time he became a winner, he already had a great team arround him. And those Bulls were damn talented squad, no one can deny that...

You're a clown.

[elementally morale]

It's easier to rank performances in sports than most arts. This is because sports gives out winners and losers and more quantitative parameters for comparison.

I'm showing you some footage of Puskas, Pel

[poido123]

[QUOTE=elementally morale]I'm showing you some footage of Puskas, Pel

[elementally morale]

No
Greatest Player in NBA History.
Jordan has one less Finals MVP, and more NBA Regular Season MVP than Shaq, Duncan, and Kobe combined.

Well, Kareem has more MVPs than that. He also has a few titles, doesn't he? He has perhaps the best shot the NBA has ever seen. He has the all-time numbers and he also has longevity on his side.

Russell has more titles. Most definitely would have more Finals MVPs, too. Has some nice stats, last time I checked. Was a 'better winner'.

Greatest Player in NBA history depends on who does the ranking. You were brought up in an era when everyone always said Jordan. But it will change.

[elementally morale]

Well, consensus points to Pele as GOAT, which also is the case for MJ...

As best striker? Puskas beats him every way possible. I can prove you via stats and I'm not kidding. What's more, the Puskas award has just been given out this year... for strikers. It is called the Puskas-award for a reason... it is not the Pel

[poido123]

[QUOTE=elementally morale]As best striker? Puskas beats him every way possible. I can prove you via stats and I'm not kidding. What's more, the Puskas award has just been given out this year... for strikers. It is called the Puskas-award for a reason... it is not the Pel

[rfm767]

[QUOTE=elementally morale]I'm showing you some footage of Puskas, Pel

[Roundball_Rock]

Jordan has the strongest case for GOAT among the worldwide basketball comunity. He IS overrated to some extent, but if he wasn't, he would still hold up as the best case for GOAT.

You are assuming people actually examine the cases for others. Let's face it: most people call Jordan the GOAT because that is all they hear on ESPN and everywhere else. Jordan being the GOAT is passed off as scientific fact, not an opinion.

so I do expect Jordan to be called overrated, not GOAT, and fans who have never seen him play say he played in a watered down league...

He can be both the GOAT and overrated. He is ascribed god-like qualities at times by his biggest fans.

The dilution issue is a legitimate one. In Formula One there is a discussion for GOAT and two of the big three candidates raced in the 80's/early 90's. The other, Michael Schumacher, raced from the mid-90's to 2006 (but is coming back next season!!!! ). Schumacher blows Senna and Prost away in terms of championships and race wins. He has all the records. He has as many championships as Senna and Prost combined. So why is there even a GOAT argument? He won in a weak era. I consider MS the GOAT but I concede he had no real competition. Senna and Prost raced in the toughest era of F1 and Schumacher in a weak era. If F1 fans can have the conversation why not in basketball? The same arguments apply to Jordan--except that Jordan was not far and away the biggest winner and dominant figure in his sport. MJ fans are defensive. If you go to a board of another sport you will say the GOAT issue raised far more than it is among basketball fans. What annoys many people is MJ is shoved down our threats 24/7 and has been for 20+ years.

Why? Is there a need for someone to be the ultimate best and the clear cut greatest? What if there wasn't anyone to be called that?

It there a greatest painter? Best composer ever? GOAT writer?

I've often heard Shakespeare referred to as the GOAT writer. I am not familiar with composers or painters but one assumes there is a GOAT discussion regarding that. I know there is the GOAT discussion regarding presidents, generals, hell even secretaries of state and Supreme Court justices. I know your view on this but I wanted to point out for the people in this thread that the GOAT discussion occurs outside the realm of sports too.

Greatest Player in NBA History.

Jordan has one less Finals MVP, and more NBA Regular Season MVP than Shaq, Duncan, and Kobe combined.

That is definitive?

Kareem: 6 MVP's (>MJ's 5), 6 rings (=MJ), 10 NBA finals (>MJ's 6), 14 conference finals (>MJ's 8), #1 all-time in scoring (>MJ's #3), #3 in rebounding, #3 in blocks, his teams won 57 games--on average (which>Jordan's 49). Kareem is the GOAT imo, MJ #2. If Kareem had the luck Jordan had and got his great team when he was 25 instead of 32 Kareem would crush everyone else.
Russell: 5 MVP's, 11 championships in 13 years (would have been 12 but his team couldn't win without him when he got hurt)
Wilt: The most individually dominant player ever. He is such a legend people associate numbers with him. 50.4. 100. 20,000.
Magic: 3 MVP's, 5 championships, 9 NBA finals, etc.

And so on with Bird and Shaq. With all due respect, this is what we are talking about. Many people act as if no one else has a case over Jordan. Jordan may be the GOAT but others have strong cases too.

and calling the 90s watered down when it was the best era ever, even if you could compare eras anyway. that is laughable too.

The 90's were not the best era. The 90's had one dominant team--and Jordan was on it. The 80's had four great teams: the Lakers, Celtics, Pistons, and Sixers. The 90's had very good teams that could have been great like the Knicks, Magic, Suns, Blazers, Sonics, Jazz and Rockets but none of them could put it all together. Yeah, the Rockets won two championships but where were they for the rest of the decade? Outside of their two championship years they made it to the conference finals only once. They lost in the first round four times and missed the playoffs in another year.

[elementally morale]

Shakespeare?

Bill was pretty good, yeah. But I prefer Thomas Mann, Bulgakov, Tolstoi and Dostoevski to him. No offense to old Bill, he was good in his own right, but...

...could he do it in this era? Today's era is a lot faster. They played no D back then. Shakespeare was nowhere near the athlete Hemingway was, and he has never seen a war the way Mailer, Heller or Vonnegut have.

I mean... sure, Billie was good but he was not that popular in his time. There were too few people reading or writing at all back then. A guy like Steinbeck is a lot more valuable if you ask me... Billie never even won the Nobel-prize

You know what I mean..................

[ThaRegul8r]

He's overrated, when people call him the GOAT for no reason and think he's head and shoulders above every player to ever play the game. He's not overrated when people just call him the GOAT and explan it though.

This. People act like compared to all the other greats to have ever played the game, Jordan is in a league of his own, and that it's an insult to even suggest that someone else might possibly have a legitimate case. Often, should one lay out a case for someone other than Jordan as GOAT, they will be ridiculed and told that they're living in denial, and must be a fan of a team Jordan routinely beat in the playoffs. There's no argument. None. Zip. Zero. Nada. In that sense, yes, Jordan is overrated.

[Abraham Lincoln]

This. People act like compared to all the other greats to have ever played the game, Jordan is in a league of his own, and that it's an insult to even suggest that someone else might possibly have a legitimate case. Often, should one lay out a case for someone other than Jordan as GOAT, they will be ridiculed and told that they're living in denial, and must be a fan of a team Jordan routinely beat in the playoffs. There's no argument. None. Zip. Zero. Nada. In that sense, yes, Jordan is overrated.

[Abraham Lincoln]

other than that, he is probably a GOAT SG

There's no "probably" about it.

[97 bulls]

You are assuming people actually examine the cases for others. Let's face it: most people call Jordan the GOAT because that is all they hear on ESPN and everywhere else. Jordan being the GOAT is passed off as scientific fact, not an opinion.



He can be both the GOAT and overrated. He is ascribed god-like qualities at times by his biggest fans.

The dilution issue is a legitimate one. In Formula One there is a discussion for GOAT and two of the big three candidates raced in the 80's/early 90's. The other, Michael Schumacher, raced from the mid-90's to 2006 (but is coming back next season!!!! ). Schumacher blows Senna and Prost away in terms of championships and race wins. He has all the records. He has as many championships as Senna and Prost combined. So why is there even a GOAT argument? He won in a weak era. I consider MS the GOAT but I concede he had no real competition. Senna and Prost raced in the toughest era of F1 and Schumacher in a weak era. If F1 fans can have the conversation why not in basketball? The same arguments apply to Jordan--except that Jordan was not far and away the biggest winner and dominant figure in his sport. MJ fans are defensive. If you go to a board of another sport you will say the GOAT issue raised far more than it is among basketball fans. What annoys many people is MJ is shoved down our threats 24/7 and has been for 20+ years.



I've often heard Shakespeare referred to as the GOAT writer. I am not familiar with composers or painters but one assumes there is a GOAT discussion regarding that. I know there is the GOAT discussion regarding presidents, generals, hell even secretaries of state and Supreme Court justices. I know your view on this but I wanted to point out for the people in this thread that the GOAT discussion occurs outside the realm of sports too.



That is definitive?

Kareem: 6 MVP's (>MJ's 5), 6 rings (=MJ), 10 NBA finals (>MJ's 6), 14 conference finals (>MJ's 8), #1 all-time in scoring (>MJ's #3), #3 in rebounding, #3 in blocks, his teams won 57 games--on average (which>Jordan's 49). Kareem is the GOAT imo, MJ #2. If Kareem had the luck Jordan had and got his great team when he was 25 instead of 32 Kareem would crush everyone else.
Russell: 5 MVP's, 11 championships in 13 years (would have been 12 but his team couldn't win without him when he got hurt)
Wilt: The most individually dominant player ever. He is such a legend people associate numbers with him. 50.4. 100. 20,000.
Magic: 3 MVP's, 5 championships, 9 NBA finals, etc.

And so on with Bird and Shaq. With all due respect, this is what we are talking about. Many people act as if no one else has a case over Jordan. Jordan may be the GOAT but others have strong cases too.



The 90's were not the best era. The 90's had one dominant team--and Jordan was on it. The 80's had four great teams: the Lakers, Celtics, Pistons, and Sixers. The 90's had very good teams that could have been great like the Knicks, Magic, Suns, Blazers, Sonics, Jazz and Rockets but none of them could put it all together. Yeah, the Rockets won two championships but where were they for the rest of the decade? Outside of their two championship years they made it to the conference finals only once. They lost in the first round four times and missed the playoffs in another year.

id like to respond to the end of your post rock. i honestly dont feel that any era was better than another. the 90s had 4 different teams win a championship and all won more than one during their tenure on top. the 80s also had 4 teams winning and out of those 4 the sixers were dominant for one season. which they won.

and i still dont understand how an era in which two teams are competing for the championship about 85 percent of the time. is considered more competitive than another. the lakers were in i believe 8 out of the 10 finals played in the 80s. and the celtics were in 4 or 5. i fail to see a difference.

[Magic Vinsanity]

No, he isnt. He has the stats, the rings and the legacy to prove it. He is the GOAT in his chosen profession, so no, he isnt overrated. I'm not an MJ fan or a Bulls fan, never have been, I hated him in the 90's when the Bulls/Magic rivalry was at its peak in 95/96, but I wont deny he is the man.