Julius Erving.

[Clifton]

I tend to think that if Durant, Lebron, and Dr. J all played out their primes at the same time, and in similar circumstances, that Dr. J would be considered the best of the 3, by a nose.

Considering Lebron's ineptitude in an iso situation and questionable jumpshot, and Durant's average defense and passing, they are still #1 and #2 in the league right now, and top 15 players ever (Durant will be at least top 20, if he continues as he's going). My impression of Dr. J is that he didn't really have either of those weaknesses.

[Dr.J4ever]

Bron or Bird is the GOAT NBA SF. But in PROFESSIONAL BASKETBALL HISTORY, Doc has a great case as the GOAT SF. The ABA was an important enough entity for the NBA to absorb it.

And also use many of their concepts. Let's say hypothetically that the ABA stats were combined with the NBA stats. If that were to happen, Doc would be a top 10 GOAT. And the GOAT SF as we speak. He up over 30,000 points for starters. He took what Baylor did to the next level. And he's one of the RARE GUYS who can be the face of the league.

So for me, Doc is a top 10 GOAT in PROFESSIONAL BASKETBALL HISTORY. As great as Bron and Bird are, their resume ISN'T better than Doc's total basketball resume. NBA wise Bron and Bird are superior, but not total basketball history. The ABA was too influential NOT TO INCLUDE IT in the grand scheme of American basketball.

In many ways, more than the old pre-merger NBA, the spirit and substance of the old ABA lives today. I of course never saw the old ABA, but witnesses say the NBA today resembles the old ABA much more than the pre-merger NBA.

It is alive in above the rim athletic moves that was more prevalent in the ABA than the old NBA.

It is alive in 3 point shooting with more spacing than the clogged lanes of the half court ruled old NBA.

It is alive in today's finesse style of offense and defense, as opposed to the more ugly and physical defenses that lorded over certain periods in NBA history.

While the NBA was center dominated in the pre-merger days and even after both leagues consolidated, the old ABA was dominated by spectacular forwards and guards. The ABA's more free lance style offenses are alive today, and the founders of the ABA's 3 point shooting would have marveled at what it has spawned in today's NBA. I suspect the traditionalists of the old NBA would be horrified to watch the GS Warriors.

I am hoping some future NBA Commissioner would bury the hatchet and see the point of finally combining the stats of the league that is so very alive in today's NBA.

Let's finally give justice to the players of the ABA whose accomplishments have been diminished by business rivalries, and not sports.

[ClipperRevival]

In many ways, more than the old pre-merger NBA, the spirit and substance of the old ABA lives today. I of course never saw the old ABA, but witnesses say the NBA today resembles the old ABA much more than the pre-merger NBA.

It is alive in above the rim athletic moves that was more prevalent in the ABA than the old NBA.

It is alive in 3 point shooting with more spacing than the clogged lanes of the half court ruled old NBA.

It is alive with today's finesse style of offense and defense, as opposed to the more ugly and physical defenses that lorded over certain periods in NBA history.

While the NBA was center dominated in the pre-merger days and even after both leagues consolidated, the old ABA was dominated by spectacular forwards and guards. The ABA's more free lance style offenses are alive today, and the founders of the ABA's 3 point shooting would have marveled at what it has spawned in today's NBA. I suspect the traditionalists of the old NBA would be horrified to watch the GS Warriors.

I am hoping some future NBA Commissioner would bury the hatchet and see the point of finally combining the stats of the league that is so very alive in today's NBA.

Let's finally give justice to the players of the ABA whose accomplishments have been diminished by business rivalries, and not sports.

They do count ABA stats. Basketball reference always allows you to look at a player's ABA or NBA stats separately or together.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/..._g_career.html

[Dr.J4ever]

They do count ABA stats. Basketball reference always allows you to look at a player's ABA or NBA stats separately or together.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/..._g_career.html

Yes, but not the NBA.

I would like it to be like the NFL, whose stats today combine old AFL stats.

It is so unfair that players like Erving, Gervin, Malone, Thompson, and many others have been relegated to the lower ranks of scorers in NBA history, just because part of their careers were in the ABA.

To me, it's outrageous to see current stars supposedly pass a player in ranking that had part of their careers in the ABA .

[ClipperRevival]

Yes, but not the NBA.

I would like it to be like the NFL, whose stats today combine old AFL stats.

It is so unfair that players like Erving, Gervin, Malone, Thompson, and many others have been relegated to the lower ranks of scorers in NBA history, just because part of their careers were in the ABA.

To me, it's outrageous to see current stars supposedly pass a player in ranking that had part of their careers in the ABA .

Gervin and Malone only played 2 seasons in the ABA and their numbers were not that impressive. Thompson had only 1 season in the ABA but he was dominant. The only guy whose numbers suffer from the ABA is Erving because his numbers were so much better than his NBA numbers and he played 5 seasons there and won 3 MVPs and two championships.

Rick Barry is another guy whose numbers take a bit of hit because he averaged 30.5 ppg over 4 seasons in the ABA.

[MiseryCityTexas]

Doctor J was the absolute truth in the 70s. He was meh in the early to mid 80s though, and wouldn't have never won an NBA title if it weren't for Philly trading the slightly overrated Darryl Dawkins for prime Moses Malone.

[Dr.J4ever]

Gervin and Malone only played 2 seasons in the ABA and their numbers were not that impressive. Thompson had only 1 season in the ABA but he was dominant. The only guy whose numbers suffer from the ABA is Erving because his numbers were so much better than his NBA numbers and he played 5 seasons there and won 3 MVPs and two championships.

Rick Barry is another guy whose numbers take a bit of hit because he averaged 30.5 ppg over 4 seasons in the ABA.

Besides Erving and Barry, I'm pretty sure Gilmore and Dan Issel's standing in NBA history have been affected by their ABA years. I tell you there were others, but I'm not an expert in ABA history and the players who were particularly affected by the transition and their rankings in history.

One thing I did read about is that there were many good players in ABA history who never quite made it to the merger or who were past their prime. I am particularly talking about them too. If you want to know more about the ABA and what transpired, I would recommend the website " remember the ABA." Every inter league(NBA vs. ABA) game is documented there and the top scorers for each team. It's very interesting, but below is a guide on the differences between the scoring list of the ABA and NBA, and this doesn't even include rebounds, assists, and what not.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...ts_career.html

[MiseryCityTexas]

Gervin and Malone only played 2 seasons in the ABA and their numbers were not that impressive. Thompson had only 1 season in the ABA but he was dominant. The only guy whose numbers suffer from the ABA is Erving because his numbers were so much better than his NBA numbers and he played 5 seasons there and won 3 MVPs and two championships.

Rick Barry is another guy whose numbers take a bit of hit because he averaged 30.5 ppg over 4 seasons in the ABA.

Gervin played on an extremely stacked yet underachieving Virginia Squires team. Minutes were hard to go around on that Squires team. That Squires team had players riding on the bench that became Allstars, and great role players later on in their careers when they went to other NBA/ABA teams. Gervin and Doctor playing together just didn't work because they were ball dominant/isolation players that both need the ball a majority of the time just to contribute. Pretty much like how Jerry Stackhouse and Grant Hill played together in the mid-to late 90s. Stackhouse and Hill as a duo were very mediocre in real life, but were cheesy as hell to use in NBA Live video games.

[Dr.J4ever]

Doctor J was the absolute truth in the 70s. He was meh in the early to mid 80s though, and wouldn't have never won an NBA title if it weren't for Philly trading the slightly overrated Darryl Dawkins for prime Moses Malone.

I partially agree with you, but you have to understand that it was the era of the center. Doc was actually the first non-center to win the MVP award in 1981 since the Big O won it in the early 60s. That long.

Even Magic never won a title without Kareem.

Bird won his titles with Parish, Mchale, Maxwell, Walton.

[MiseryCityTexas]

Besides Erving and Barry, I'm pretty sure Gilmore and Dan Issel's standing in NBA history have been affected by their ABA years. I tell you there were others, but I'm not an expert in ABA history and the players who were particularly affected by the transition and their rankings in history.

One thing I did read about is that there were many good players in ABA history who never quite made it to the merger or who were past their prime. I am particularly talking about them too. If you want to know more about the ABA and what transpired, I would recommend the website " remember the ABA." Every inter league(NBA vs. ABA) game is documented there and the top scorers for each team. It's very interesting, but below is a guide on the differences between the scoring list of the ABA and NBA, and this doesn't even include rebounds, assists, and what not.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...ts_career.html

Mel Daniels was a friggin superstar in the ABA, but instantly became a nonfactor after the league merger.

[ClipperRevival]

Besides Erving and Barry, I'm pretty sure Gilmore and Dan Issel's standing in NBA history have been affected by their ABA years. I tell you there were others, but I'm not an expert in ABA history and the players who were particularly affected by the transition and their rankings in history.

One thing I did read about is that there were many good players in ABA history who never quite made it to the merger or who were past their prime. I am particularly talking about them too. If you want to know more about the ABA and what transpired, I would recommend the website " remember the ABA." Every inter league(NBA vs. ABA) game is documented there and the top scorers for each team. It's very interesting, but below is a guide on the differences between the scoring list of the ABA and NBA, and this doesn't even include rebounds, assists, and what not.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...ts_career.html

Yup. Gilmore and Issel are two other notable players who put up significantly better numbers in the ABA.

[Dr.J4ever]

Mel Daniels was a friggin superstar in the ABA, but instantly became a nonfactor after the league merger.

To be fair, in his last ABA season in 1974-75, he averaged 9.8ppg, and in 1975-76, he was playing in Italy.

In 1976-77 with the NY Nets of the NBA, he played 11 games and 3ppg.

He was clearly a declining player, and let's not forget that the 70s were the era of drugs. Not that I know he was on drugs. Just saying.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...danieme01.html

[Dr.J4ever]

Yup. Gilmore and Issel are two other notable players who put up significantly better numbers in the ABA.

Yes, the ABA had a faster pace, and a more wide open style which produced generally higher numbers. I did mention that in my other post.

I hope the style of play isn't being used by people to downgrade it's reputation, since it's been proven many times in NBA history that different styles can succeed and when they do clash, the winner is usually the team that could impose it's will on it's opponent.

[warriorfan]

I already conceded that he toned down his game given the superior talent surrounding him in the NBA.

But in the ABA, he averaged 28.7 ppg on 22.3 fga and 22.0 ppg on 17.1 fga in the NBA.

So you can't tell me his numbers didn't drop by a good margin in the NBA. Some of it due to the addiitional help but some of it due to the level of comp being better in the NBA.

Dr J's health was a bigger problem than the "better competition"

I'n 1976 when Dr J won the ABA Finals with his amazing display of dominance he did it vs the leagues best defense, the Nuggets, against the best defender in the league, Bobby Jones.

In 1977 the Nuggets join the NBA and guess which team has the best ranked defense? Nuggets did.

So when Dr J posted 37.7 points / 14.2 rebounds / 6.0 assists / 3 steal / 2.2 blocks on 59% FG during the 1976 ABA Championship he did it vs the best defensive team in the World.

[Marchesk]

Dr. J's combined stats /accolades:

3 titles, 4 MVPs, 30,000+ points, 10,000+ boards, 5000+ assists, 2000+ steals, 1900+ blocks.

That's slightly above Bird/Bran level.