This is the year Kobe is suppose to pass MJ in points.....

[AintNoSunshine]

Don't hate on Kobe because he plays more playoff games than MJ.

If you need your team to get into the post season you take Kobe.

Does it come with his daddy Shaq or his mommy Gasol? Last I checked he missed the PO as soon as after Shaq left

[Mr. Jabbar]

Does it come with his mommy Gasol?

it comes with 0-20 playoff virgin gasol, lamar odumb, collectible bowling-edition bynum and some other guys you may have not heard about. you should take this one-time package deal, 3 finals 2 chips guaranteed or a complete refund

[TheMilkyBarKid]

Kobe can score as many points as he wants, he will never quite be the scorer, the player or the competitor MJ was. The original > lower quality knockoff.

[Mrofir]

Thread causes brain cells to die

These people are not rational beings

Btw Kobe's career is over hate to say it, but it's true.

[AintNoSunshine]

it comes with 0-20 playoff virgin gasol, lamar odumb, collectible bowling-edition bynum and some other guys you may have not heard about. you should take this one-time package deal, 3 finals 2 chips guaranteed or a complete refund

a.k.a. the most dominant frontline in the league during the time

[Mrofir]

a.k.a. the most dominant frontline in the league during the time

not if you spell his name with "dumb" in it!! And you know, the fact that these players are no longer effective totally means that they were NEVER effective.

Also, have you looked at Shaq's stats for his final season in Boston? 9ppg/4 rebounds. That must mean that Kobe carried him to the championship.

[TheMarkMadsen]

not if you spell his name with "dumb" in it!! And you know, the fact that these players are no longer effective totally means that they were NEVER effective.

Also, have you looked at Shaq's stats for his final season in Boston? 9ppg/4 rebounds. That must mean that Kobe carried him to the championship.

Yeah because comparing 2000 Shaq to 2011 Shaq is the exact same thing as comparing 2010 Lamar Odom to 2011 Lamar Odom

[MastaKilla]

Don't forget something else very important. The defending champs lost their best player to injury in 2009 (at the time was most dominant team) and after he came back he was about 75% of the player he was before ... and the Celtics were never quite as dominant as they were in 2008. Still continued to be an elite team, though.

You kno you got your jimmies rustled when u in here bein butt buddies with Miami fans.

[Mr. Jabbar]

a.k.a. the most dominant frontline in the league during the time

bynum barely played, odom could never carry one good game to the next one and gasol was a great second option. its not like kobe went to south beach, he did a lot with way less than many championship teams, i watched the games, i know, rest is verse

[Mrofir]

Yeah because comparing 2000 Shaq to 2011 Shaq is the exact same thing as comparing 2010 Lamar Odom to 2011 Lamar Odom

Reductio ad absurdum

Argument stands. But for you I will promise to use more direct language in the future. Here's a taste --

The players who helped Kobe win the latter two championships were fantastic players at the time, and are no longer great players. For each player, the reasons for their decline are slightly different, but one common factor is age. The reason for the decline in these players effectiveness is not simply because they don't play with Kobe anymore. mmk

If it were only because of playing with Kobe mmk, I'm not sure how one could explain Gasol's 2012 season, in which he also didn't play well. That is just one example.

mmk

[AintNoSunshine]

Rustled?

It took Kobe 3 more years to reach MJ. And technically he still hasn't done it yet. 5 years actually if you count Jordan's 17 game '95 season, and his 18 game '86 season on limited minutes as "full seasons"

5 whole years dude. Half a decade in season to reach MJ's total. Negate the first two years Kobe came off the bench? That's still 3 extra seasons as a starter playing major minutes where he still hasn't caught up to Jordan.

The context makes this not even close. I'm just trolling the OP troll.

I'm not mad that Karl Malone is above MJ on the all-time scoring list, either. Cause it's clear he was the inferior scorer, and player.

Big deal Kobe is passing MJ.

Jordan left 2 years of his PRIME on the table. And didn't bother hanging around in '99, 2000, 2001 - 2003 not competing for rings, while padding his all-time accumulative output by putting up anything from 20 - 28 ppg.

Remove Kobe's '97, and '98 coming off the bench as a youngster. His worst scoring seasons? And he's a career 28 ppg scorer. Outstanding. Remove MJ's 2002, and 2003 as a 39 / 40 year old, on weak knees, limited minutes and he's a career 32 ppg scorer.

As it stands now, Kobe's a career 25 ppg, Jordan's the all-time high 30.4 ppg scorer, edging out Chamberlain. Either way one cuts it MJ is factually a 5 ppg better scorer compared to Kobe. Nothing changes that.

Why are we acting like it's even debatable, Kobe is a hobo's MJ

[TheMarkMadsen]

Reductio ad absurdum

Argument stands. But for you I will promise to use more direct language in the future. Here's a taste --

The players who helped Kobe win the latter two championships were fantastic players at the time, and are no longer great players. For each player, the reasons for their decline are slightly different, but one common factor is age. The reason for the decline in these players effectiveness is not simply because they don't play with Kobe anymore. mmk

If it were only because of playing with Kobe mmk, I'm not sure how one could explain Gasol's 2012 season, in which he also didn't play well. That is just one example.

mmk

Bynums been injured since he left the Lakers, nobody arguing he is worse w/o Kobe.

Gasol has has his most efficient/productive seasons ever playing alongside Kobe and was able to mantain his first option numbers while seeing the ball and takin a couple less shots per game, due to the freedom Kobe opened up for him in the post.

The year Gasol was traded he he was averaging 18ppg on 50% shooting while taking 14 shots per game while playing for Memphis.

That same year, after being trader to the Lakers Pau improved his FG% from 50% to 59%, still put up 18ppg while taking 2 fewer shots per game. The next year Gasol shot 57%, the year after that 54%..

Gasols most efficient season as a Grizzly shooting wise? 53%. So his efficiency goes up playing with Kobe while his productions that's basically the game. So yeah Kobe makes Gasol better, no question.

A healthy Gasol this year without Kobe? A 38% shooter taking 12 shots to score 12 points per game. Is some of that due to age? Yes, however Gasol had an injury riddled year just last year where he shot 47%. But it's not all age, Gasol still has his biggest attribute fully intact, his height. Big men are are supposed to age gracefully, not break down like other players due to loss of athleticism..which was never a part of Gasols game..

Gasols a very very good player on his own right, but his game flourishes next to Kobe

Odom was a good productive player before Kobe, and while Kobe by no mean did Kobe "make him" he sure as hell extended his career by a good 2-3 years.

I don't have time to break down how a player like Odom is complimented greatly by a player like Kobe,but he is. Lamar was able to play in a system where his best attributes could be used to their fullest potential, while being able to hide his biggest flaw (consistency)

Like I said, Big men are supposed to age gracefully, you're going to tell me that the 3rd option on a championship team who ironically in 2011 had his best season (scoring & effeciency wise) than he had in years, was completely useless one year later because he turned 32? He went from 14ppg on 53% in 2011 to 6ppg on 35% in 2012.. You're gonna tell me that's all due to a 8 month span of aging?

Please...

Surely it wasn't all because he didnt have the luxury of playing Kobe, but it sure as hell wasn't all due to age. Kobe makes the game easier or big men. Especially a guy like Odom.

[MastaKilla]

Rustled?

It took Kobe 3 more years to reach MJ. And technically he still hasn't done it yet. 5 years actually if you count Jordan's 17 game '95 season, and his 18 game '86 season on limited minutes as "full seasons"

5 whole years dude. Half a decade in season to reach MJ's total. Negate the first two years Kobe came off the bench? That's still 3 extra seasons as a starter playing major minutes where he still hasn't caught up to Jordan.

The context makes this not even close. I'm just trolling the OP troll.

I'm not mad that Karl Malone is above MJ on the all-time scoring list, either. Cause it's clear he was the inferior scorer, and player.

Big deal Kobe is passing MJ.

Jordan left 2 years of his PRIME on the table. And didn't bother hanging around in '99, 2000, 2001 - 2003 not competing for rings, while padding his all-time accumulative output by putting up anything from 20 - 28 ppg.

Remove Kobe's '97, and '98 coming off the bench as a youngster. His worst scoring seasons? And he's a career 28 ppg scorer. Outstanding. Remove MJ's 2002, and 2003 as a 39 / 40 year old, on weak knees, limited minutes and he's a career 32 ppg scorer.

As it stands now, Kobe's a career 25 ppg, Jordan's the all-time high 30.4 ppg scorer, edging out Chamberlain. Either way one cuts it MJ is factually a 5 ppg better scorer compared to Kobe. Nothing changes that.

Ya you in here typin essays to dispute claims nobody is makin in this thread.



Rustled

[Crafty]

There won't be playoff points for Kobe this year...

[Mrofir]

Bynums been injured since he left the Lakers, nobody arguing he is worse w/o Kobe. disagree, people are in fact implying that this is somehow true, or simply forgetting how effective Bynum was during the championship runs.

Gasol has has his most efficient/productive seasons ever playing alongside Kobe and was able to mantain his first option numbers while seeing the ball and takin a couple less shots per game, due to the freedom Kobe opened up for him in the post. I agree

The year Gasol was traded he he was averaging 18ppg on 50% shooting while taking 14 shots per game while playing for Memphis.

That same year, after being trader to the Lakers Pau improved his FG% from 50% to 59%, still put up 18ppg while taking 2 fewer shots per game. The next year Gasol shot 57%, the year after that 54%..

Gasols most efficient season as a Grizzly shooting wise? 53%. So his efficiency goes up playing with Kobe while his productions that's basically the game. So yeah Kobe makes Gasol better, no question. I agree

A healthy Gasol this year totally disagree and you know this isn't true. Gasol is not healthy right now.without Kobe? A 38% shooter taking 12 shots to score 12 points per game. Is some of that due to age? Yes, however Gasol had an injury riddled year just last year where he shot 47%. But it's not all age, Gasol still has his biggest attribute fully intact, his height. Big men are are supposed to age gracefully, not break down like other players due to loss of athleticism..which was never a part of Gasols game..everyone is different -- when/if anything resembling Kobe comes back, we'll see if Pau suddenly starts playing better. Law of averages also says, Pau will not average 37% on the season even without Kobe. It's likely to go up into the mid 40s which would in fact be consistent with an age related decline.

Gasols a very very good player on his own right, but his game flourishes next to Kobe I agree

Odom was a good excellentproductive player before Kobe, and while Kobe by no mean did Kobe "make him" he sure as hell extended his career by a good 2-3 years. perhaps

I don't have time to break down how a player like Odom is complimented greatly by a player like Kobe,but he is. You don't have toLamar was able to play in a system where his best attributes could be used to their fullest potential, while being able to hide his biggest flaw (consistency) PJ deserves plenty of credit here too..btw has Kobe won without PJ?

Like I said, Big men are supposed to age gracefully, you're going to tell me that the 3rd option on a championship team who ironically in 2011 had his best season (scoring & effeciency wise) than he had in years, was completely useless one year later because he turned 32? He went from 14ppg on 53% in 2011 to 6ppg on 35% in 2012.. You're gonna tell me that's all due to a 8 month span of aging? Gasol's last two seasons in Memphis were better than his 2011 season in almost every way. His 2011 does not look at all out of place in the context of a gradual age related decline. Not at all.

Please...

Surely it wasn't all because he didnt have the luxury of playing Kobe, but it sure as hell wasn't all due to age. Kobe makes the game easier or big men. Especially a guy like Odom.

Sure

I was responding to trolls. You are a thoughtful poster. We don't agree on everything obviously. But I was speaking to the Kobe fan masses that seek to diminish the legacy of their other championship caliber players in order to magnify Kobe's legacy. It's messed up, you do not see Bulls fans or Spurs fans doing that stuff. I don't understand it.