Is Embiid as good a prospect as Oden was?

[Pointguard]

Embiid has a great learning curve, solid fundamentals, great work ethic, with a way of knowing how to fit in with a star. His coordination, foot movement, ambidexterity, reading defenses, quickness to the move, ability to go to his left,
adjust and go in another direction are qualities I think compare favorably to Oden. Oden was stronger patrolled more of the paint than Embiid.

Embiid really knows how to apply himself and has never been at a level where he has leveled off. Meaning he has been on a rocket upward for three years and there is no telling when it will level off. His skills in the post are exceptional as a third year player. His reading of defense far beyond three years of playing. Most players can't play the post because of this. Dwight Howard came into the league with a rep about his foot movement. But eight years later and Hakeem camp seemingly couldn't teach him the skills Embiid already has?

Oden got hype because he was ready to play big unlike a full decade of young players seemed willing to do. He was supposed to the guy that brought big back. Drummond quietly broke the mode.

[chocolatethunder]

As someone who watches Philly consistently, I can say that Turner would have performed much better earlier in his career if he had the role and room within the offense that he does this season. It took the departure of both Iguodala and (later) Holiday for him to become the option to the coaches that he is today. If Parker has the same type of game that Turner had coming out of school, a team would do very well to give him the green light for a few years and see what he can do

I was going to say the exact same thing about Turner. I feel like he's always been this player. Collins just didn't like him and instead loved Jrue. I love Doug Collins but he can def be tough on young dudes. Turner is now exactly what he was projected to be, a really nice player. Not a guy who will be scoring champ but a dude who can do a lot of things.

[hateraid]

I would say no.

Oden came into the NBA will borderline All-NBA caliber defense right away. He was solid enough on offense as well. IMO, he was ahead of Embiid in pretty much all areas. But that just shows you how great of a prospect Oden was.

This

If the question were is playing better basketball their freshman year I would say Embiid.

[Owl]

So you have no proof he was a better free throw shooter.

Scorin more means nothing without context. Are you saying he is a better scorer, because that is just wrong.

Stronger in the post, are you just saying he is stronger? He certainly isn't better in the post.

Lastly, your stuck with the only thing Oden had on offense, which was o rebounding.

Embiid is a MUCH better offensive player. Just happens that he plays in a different system with different players.

Re: Free throws, can't find full stats but http://www.gregoden.com/gregoden022406.php states he was shooting 82% from FT in his senior HS season though we can't tell if that's in a big or small sample.

And whilst you say Plowking can't prove FT% is better you can't "prove" him being better in the post (not saying he isn't, but it's mostly unprovable).

What you can say of Oden is he didn't look like he'd be a high volume scorer, but with his shot selection and finishing ability, he was likely to be a medium volume high efficiency offensive player.
cf:http://www.draftexpress.com/article/...ter-Crop-2136/

Embiid too hasn't been huge usage (though like Oden he's scoring a point every other minute), but from what little I've seen he seems skilled (good footwork etc). He's shooting a higher % than Oden from the field. The numbers aren't perfect for comparison (different roles and at the college level competition is so variable) but his athleticism and size should net him some easy points in transition and on pick and rolls. His decision making could use some work though (I see he's taken a couple of 3s).

And strength in the post isn't a small thing (and I do suspect physical strength is what Plowking meant). I mean Shaq was agile but nowhere near as "skilled" as a Hakeem in the post but he outshot him from the field by a large margin because he was so strong. Not that the disparity between Oden and Embiid is anything like that (as noted above Embiid is shooting better than Oden did).

The opinions in terms of what Embiid looks like are based on limited youtube footage and are largely 2nd hand from draftexpress.

Anyway Embiid looks, from the little I've seen, good enough that whoever has the first pick will have to at least look at him.

[IGOTGAME]

Re: Free throws, can't find full stats but http://www.gregoden.com/gregoden022406.php states he was shooting 82% from FT in his senior HS season though we can't tell if that's in a big or small sample.

And whilst you say Plowking can't prove FT% is better you can't "prove" him being better in the post (not saying he isn't, but it's mostly unprovable).

What you can say of Oden is he didn't look like he'd be a high volume scorer, but with his shot selection and finishing ability, he was likely to be a medium volume high efficiency offensive player.
cf:http://www.draftexpress.com/article/...ter-Crop-2136/

Embiid too hasn't been huge usage (though like Oden he's scoring a point every other minute), but from what little I've seen he seems skilled (good footwork etc). He's shooting a higher % than Oden from the field. The numbers aren't perfect for comparison (different roles and at the college level competition is so variable) but his athleticism and size should net him some easy points in transition and on pick and rolls. His decision making could use some work though (I see he's taken a couple of 3s).

And strength in the post isn't a small thing (and I do suspect physical strength is what Plowking meant). I mean Shaq was agile but nowhere near as "skilled" as a Hakeem in the post but he outshot him from the field by a large margin because he was so strong. Not that the disparity between Oden and Embiid is anything like that (as noted above Embiid is shooting better than Oden did).

The opinions in terms of what Embiid looks like are based on limited youtube footage and are largely 2nd hand from draftexpress.

Anyway Embiid looks, from the little I've seen, good enough that whoever has the first pick will have to at least look at him.

I most certainly can prove Embiid is better in the post than Oden. If that isn't provable then nothing in this sport is...he literally does everything better. including get position. He scores at a higher rate and with a higher usage rate in the post. He passes much better out of the post and has a face up game as well. If this isn't provable then there is no need to have a discussion because we are just being disingenuous. I mean Oden wasn't even a good scorer on the block and he was in the perfect situation to be. Ohio State had an NBA level playmaker, elite shooters and played 4 out one 1 in...everything was stacked in his favor...teams actually didn't double him as much as embiid gets doubled and he still was showing anything close to what Embiid has shown on the block. It's like with KO King said...people understate Oden flaws and just big up his strengths...Oden had a bad touch and had basically no moves. For every move he completed there was an air ball or travel to go with it.

This is what bothers me with people using Shaq in comparisons....you can't. Shaq is the exception, the bumblebee. He should be banned from comparisons because you can't make em.

[IncarceratedBob]

We all knew Oden had bum knees but his potential made everyone over look it. He had Kareems body, the Dreams moves, Shaqs power, and Duncans leadership. It's a shame what happened but if there was even a 10% chance of him reaching his potential I'm taking him over Durant

[Nash]

As Stephen A Smith said, Oden was the next Bill Russell coming out of college.

[IncarceratedBob]

As Stephen A Smith said, Oden was the next Bill Russell coming out of college.

What does that even mean? Bill was a great leader but Greg had more potential offensively by far. Bill played rock solid defense and rode his teammates for rings but saying someone is the next Bill Russell doesn't mean anything. Tyson Chandler is the modern day Bill Russell and I think Oden had way potential than Tyson IMO.

[Owl]

I most certainly can prove Embiid is better in the post than Oden. If that isn't provable then nothing in this sport is...he literally does everything better. including get position. He scores at a higher rate and with a higher usage rate in the post. He passes much better out of the post and has a face up game as well. If this isn't provable then there is no need to have a discussion because we are just being disingenuous. I mean Oden wasn't even a good scorer on the block and he was in the perfect situation to be. Ohio State had an NBA level playmaker, elite shooters and played 4 out one 1 in...everything was stacked in his favor...teams actually didn't double him as much as embiid gets doubled and he still was showing anything close to what Embiid has shown on the block. It's like with KO King said...people understate Oden flaws and just big up his strengths...Oden had a bad touch and had basically no moves. For every move he completed there was an air ball or travel to go with it.

This is what bothers me with people using Shaq in comparisons....you can't. Shaq is the exception, the bumblebee. He should be banned from comparisons because you can't make em.

You seem to miss the point, it's about the nature of proof. There isn't an objective measure of post skill. So your repeating that he's better in the post (a point that I have made clear I agree with) certainly doesn't represent a proof. You take proving it as though it's a challenge.

And I don't know why you're getting worked up about Shaq, I've clearly stated that it wasn't a direct analogy, simply that strength in the post is important and it was something you utterly discounted

Stronger in the post, are you just saying he is stronger? He certainly isn't better in the post.

Lastly, your stuck with the only thing Oden had on offense, which was o rebounding.

This post doesn't argue that Oden isn't physically stronger (and thereby implies he was) and then says his only advantage was offensive rebounding. That's why strength is brought up.

I could use Chamberlain to say power is important in the post, I could use Gilmore, heck I could use Eddy Curry, being big and having strength and heft helps players get good position and get good shots, are you really disputing that?

[veilside23]

I most certainly can prove Embiid is better in the post than Oden. If that isn't provable then nothing in this sport is...he literally does everything better. including get position. He scores at a higher rate and with a higher usage rate in the post. He passes much better out of the post and has a face up game as well. If this isn't provable then there is no need to have a discussion because we are just being disingenuous. I mean Oden wasn't even a good scorer on the block and he was in the perfect situation to be. Ohio State had an NBA level playmaker, elite shooters and played 4 out one 1 in...everything was stacked in his favor...teams actually didn't double him as much as embiid gets doubled and he still was showing anything close to what Embiid has shown on the block. It's like with KO King said...people understate Oden flaws and just big up his strengths...Oden had a bad touch and had basically no moves. For every move he completed there was an air ball or travel to go with it.

This is what bothers me with people using Shaq in comparisons....you can't. Shaq is the exception, the bumblebee. He should be banned from comparisons because you can't make em.

Odem didnt have a Stack team in college sure he had conley but without oden that team is a joke ... Oden didnt have post moves or go to moves is also quite an understatement i must say. he had a jump or sky hook even with a broken finger/hand oden scored "naturally" it look effortless at times.

Its just a shame that we werent able to see what might have become oden in college was a sure thing because everyone knew how good durant is ... but they still pick oden. It might have worked in his favor that he played in america but dude was just simply a beast... I kinda disagree about defense vs offense i think one thing is easier to learn than the other it takes talent and determination to learn both things. and excel on both. (see lopez brothers)

right now embiid showed he has more moves than oden offensively but he is far from how good oden was defensively.. even a healthy andrew bynum was getting owned by oden even if that was a small sample size. Oden is by far better defensively. Like what ive stated in my post right now cauley stein is better than embiid defensively ... if you dont see that then its fine with me.

[IGOTGAME]

I used the term "prove"in that last post not "proof." I think you need to learn the difference. Something doesn't need to be an objectice truth to be proven, ones argument must simply meet whatever burden is relevant. Nowhere did state any intention to use to a mathmatical proof. I think you should attempt to grasp the concept. While your at it you should the difference between skills and attributes.

Oh and btw Odens team was stacked. I guess you dodnt watch them much. They were a lot better than this poorly built Kansas team.

[veilside23]

I used the term "prove"in that last post not "proof." I think you need to learn the difference. Something doesn't need to be an objectice truth to be proven, ones argument must simply meet whatever burden is relevant. Nowhere did state any intention to use to a mathmatical proof. I think you should attempt to grasp the concept.

Oh and btw Odens team was stacked. I guess you dodnt watch them much. They were a lot better than this poorly built Kansas team.

yes they were stacked because of oden and conley but they had cook
lewis and lighty.. starting 5 is great but bench is weak as oppose to

arthur
chalmers
collins
kaun
jackson
rush
julian wright

... As i stated without oden that ohio state team is a joke.. That was greg oden's team not conley's. Conley wasnt this good back then as well there were holes in his game.. they are probably the best 1-2 but best roster belong to your "poorly" built kansas team funny you mentioned that kansas was poorly built but still won it... just like some NBA teams not being stacked right ?

[IGOTGAME]

yes they were stacked because of oden and conley but they had cook
lewis and lighty.. starting 5 is great but bench is weak as oppose to

arthur
chalmers
collins
kaun
jackson
rush
julian wright

... As i stated without oden that ohio state team is a joke.. That was greg oden's team not conley's. Conley wasnt this good back then as well there were holes in his game.. they are probably the best 1-2 but best roster belong to your "poorly" built kansas team funny you mentioned that kansas was poorly built but still won it... just like some NBA teams not being stacked right ?

Stay with me...we are comparing Oden and Embiid. When I mention Kansas what team am I more likely referring to?

And that team would have been ranked without Oden.

[veilside23]

Stay with me...we are comparing Oden and Embiid. When I mention Kansas what team am I more likely referring to?

And that team would have been ranked without Oden.

Ok they would be ranked but no way in hell they would make it out of sweet 16...

Without Embiid the team they have now is still better and can still make it to sweet 16 without oden back he was in OSU. and remind you this is not embiid's team.. His team is stacked compared to what oden had.. they just happen to have a young team (embiid).

[moe94]

We all knew Oden had bum knees but his potential made everyone over look it. He had Kareems body, the Dreams moves, Shaqs power, and Duncans leadership. It's a shame what happened but if there was even a 10% chance of him reaching his potential I'm taking him over Durant